Can someone explain JOBO Processors to me?

[removed account4]

hey stone

i have a rotary processor, and never use it because it leaks like mad.
if you want to use your rotary processor, do a test in a big plastic bin
put x-cc's of chemistry in it ( like you are processing 6 rolls or sheets of film )
seal it closed and run it and see how much ( if any ) water leaks out.
the processor i have has seals ( more like plastic washers )
that are thin and need to be schmeered with vasoline each use to maintain a good seal
( recommendation of the company that made / makes them ) but even then the tubes STILL leak a bit ..

jobos always seemed like a great thing, i almost bought one many years ago, but lack of money
sank that boat ...

good luck !
john

 

[StoneNYC]

Unicolor also made a film processing drum to be used with their roller motor base. The drum is adjustable in capacity and can hold about 6 35mm reels. The plastic reels are proprietary (not Paterson-compatible) come in 35mm and 120 flavors (not adjustable). I haven't used mine yet because I hardly ever have several rolls of the same kind ready for developing all at once.

Yea I think the motor base thing is a unicolor. I know I posted a picture of it somewhere on here but can't find it.

And thanks John, good idea with the bucket idea for leaks.

I've just never done rotary so I'm a little unfamiliar with it all. It's "scary" and new.

If it weren't so pricey it wouldn't be so bad, but I shoot 35mm, 120, and 4x5 (not to mention 116/616 and 70mm as well as 127...)...

So I need separate inserts/drums for each is what I'm hearing.

Plus as I mentioned the only space is my sink, I can STORE the machine in the basement but certainly can't get any drainage down there so that doesn't work.

What's killing film is all these extra things, it's fun and cheap to get started in B&W, $100 gets you everything you need to process 100 rolls... But then there's color, and it becomes insane...


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[Chris Lange]

A CPP actually produces very little drain-waste...certainly not enough to over flow a small pail or bucket...I would say a liter at most, primarily because I like to give the innards a good rinse after processing. I generally use it up through the fix-remove and then wash a bunch of reels all at once in a spare 4 liter container, followed by photoflo. The lift uses a output tube that lets you "reclaim" any step of chemistry back into its original container.

As for figuring times, use manufacturer suggested times to start with as usual. I am meticulous as all hell when hand processing, but the jobo is even better, and i have never had a single blemish or hint of uneven development on film processed with it. Continuous agitation gets all this hub-bub on forums, most of it is a bunch of bullshit. It doesn't increase contrast, it doesn't increase granularity, it doesn't fuck up your color, and it certainly doesn't shorten development times. The agitation is so gentle (and adjustable, I might add) on a jobo that all it is doing is just refreshing the chemistry on a regular basis. You're more likely to introduce variables with intermittent inversion because you are introducing an interspersed binary pattern of development activity,

ie.

Inversion: 1-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-1

Rotary: 1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-1

Jobo used to brag that film manufacturers (namely kodak) used their processors to establish baselines for consistency. Don't know how much truth there is to that statement, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[PKM-25]

What's killing film is all these extra things, it's fun and cheap to get started in B&W, $100 gets you everything you need to process 100 rolls... But then there's color, and it becomes insane...

Lol!

You can't seriously be saying that shooting 100 rolls of C41 and E6 based color films without creating and sticking to a budget is killing film? When Christopher Burkett paid for his last batch of Ilfochrome, some 8,000 square meters, he had a budget....you need a budget. If after creating a budget for color you find you can not afford to process the film, then you can not afford to shoot color film.

I would just send it off to a good lab in batches when you can afford it if you can not afford to do it right, because ultimately, what is the time you spent shooting it worth if you were to screw up the processing? Heck, I have a CPP2 and can run color but have no interest in doing so, I am a photographer, not a lab enthusiast....

 

[StoneNYC]

Lol!

You can't seriously be saying that shooting 100 rolls of C41 and E6 based color films without creating and sticking to a budget is killing film? When Christopher Burkett paid for his last batch of Ilfochrome, some 8,000 square meters, he had a budget....you need a budget. If after creating a budget for color you find you can not afford to process the film, then you can not afford to shoot color film.

I would just send it off to a good lab in batches when you can afford it if you can not afford to do it right, because ultimately, what is the time you spent shooting it worth if you were to screw up the processing? Heck, I have a CPP2 and can run color but have no interest in doing so, I am a photographer, not a lab enthusiast....

You're right, I have no budget, certainly not for color, but I would rather shoot some beautiful color images and eventually get them processed then not shoot them at all.

I have the budget to process some color film, it's the TIME that's killing me because hand processing 2 rolls in a warm tub at my sink when other people in the house need to use it (at every friggin hour) except from 11pm to 5am... So I process by hand overnight when I can afford the time and stay awake...

Now I know I would still have to be there to use the processor, but my arms wouldn't fall off and I could get a lot more done faster and with apparently less chemistry.

So, since you don't use that processor, you can just give it to me then right? LOL

Thanks Dan, as (almost) always you're absolutely correct, I need a more deliberate budget.... But being an actor and photographer and that's it, the income is sporadic and doesn't leave much room for budgeting. Hopefully soon I'll move out of the acting game and back to banking, then I will be able to budget for sure!


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[Chris Lange]

PKM speaks the truth once again. I rarely use my jobo for color, would rather send it to crc or duggal. makes life easy for b/w though.

 

[StoneNYC]

PKM speaks the truth once again. I rarely use my jobo for color, would rather send it to crc or duggal. makes life easy for b/w though.

And I wouldn't want to use it for B&W since I choose a film and agitation scheme that I like for the results I want that can't be duplicated by a rotary tank.. We are all so different


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[Terry Christian]

Adding to what Chris was saying about using constant agitation for color:
I wouldn't expect it to mess up color, either. C-41 developing is 3:15 with agitation every thirty seconds, so that's close enough to constant as it is!
I've done all my C-41 so far in tanks, and the changes I've made to my developing that yielded the best results were 1. using a developer starter (applicable only if you're not using a kit), and 2. at PE's recommendation, adding an acid stop after development.

 

[PKM-25]

I would not be shooting 4x5 black and white if I did not run the film in my CPP2, too inconsistent otherwise. With the exception of using a slosher tray ( I also have one ) , you look at how master printers like John Sexton come to rely on rotary consistency and realize just how much that frees up your eye in terms of creative exposure evaluation.

Indeed, we are all different, I find the time, money, gas and film price when shooting 4x5 too expensive to mess around with so I opt for high consistency...that and I probably don't have the same level of patience in trying other sheet film souping methods compared to roll film in tanks which I love.

 

[pbromaghin]

What a great conversation. I've been sitting on the fence about trying B&W roller development with one of those little Unirollers like Stone has and then C-41 with a phototherm unit. You guys have convinced me to do it. Thank you all.

 

[StoneNYC]

What a great conversation. I've been sitting on the fence about trying B&W roller development with one of those little Unirollers like Stone has and then C-41 with a phototherm unit. You guys have convinced me to do it. Thank you all.

Well at least one of my threads have had a positive outcome for once haha!


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[CatLABS]

Jobo used to brag that film manufacturers (namely kodak) used their processors to establish baselines for consistency. Don't know how much truth there is to that statement, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It's very true, though kodak nowa days has its own proprietary QA system and materials.... The standard parameters have all been established in a Jobo machine at one point or another in history.

 

[adelorenzo]

What a great conversation. I've been sitting on the fence about trying B&W roller development with one of those little Unirollers like Stone has and then C-41 with a phototherm unit. You guys have convinced me to do it. Thank you all.

Go for it. I started doing it for sheet film but I like the process so much I am moving my roll film development over as well.

 

[StoneNYC]

Go for it. I started doing it for sheet film but I like the process so much I am moving my roll film development over as well.

Maybe I'll do this with my 5 roll tank? Because I only need enough chemistry to cover to the center of the tank correct?


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[Chris Lange]

the best way to find out exactly how much liquid you need is to take a bum roll of crap film you'll never use (way expired drugstore c-41 is perfect), spool it onto a reel, put it in the tank on the spindle, but don't push it down to the bottom, let it sit in the "top roll" position...as if it were the fifth of 5 reels and put the tank on its side. Add something like 400-500ml of water and hold the tank (with the lid on) parallel to the floor and rotate it (or put it on the roller) if you pull out the film and the whole roll is wet, it's enough. Add on 50ml just to cover your bottom, and there's your figure.

For what it's worth, my jobo drum uses 270ml of chemicals for the 2x 35mm rolls drum. I would extrapolate that for a paterson 5 reeler (I've got one too), you'll probably need about 550ml.

 

[StoneNYC]

the best way to find out exactly how much liquid you need is to take a bum roll of crap film you'll never use (way expired drugstore c-41 is perfect), spool it onto a reel, put it in the tank on the spindle, but don't push it down to the bottom, let it sit in the "top roll" position...as if it were the fifth of 5 reels and put the tank on its side. Add something like 400-500ml of water and hold the tank (with the lid on) parallel to the floor and rotate it (or put it on the roller) if you pull out the film and the whole roll is wet, it's enough. Add on 50ml just to cover your bottom, and there's your figure.

For what it's worth, my jobo drum uses 270ml of chemicals for the 2x 35mm rolls drum. I would extrapolate that for a paterson 5 reeler (I've got one too), you'll probably need about 550ml.

I agree with that, probably a little more for the Paterson because of that wider top lip


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[Pioneer]

PKM speaks the truth once again. I rarely use my jobo for color, would rather send it to crc or duggal. makes life easy for b/w though.

I have done the opposite. I do all my black & white by inversion in my Paterson tanks and do all my color with the Jobo. I have been rather enjoying being able to do my own color film developing without spending a lot of money for lab fees. Getting the CPE2+ has completely revived my use of color. I am not trying to make money with it, I am just having fun! It is not a monstrous piece of equipment but it sure works nice. It is small, light and easy to handle. It reminds me a lot of the little Ford 8N. The perfect little companion for the hobbyist.

 

[polyglot]

I do everything in my Jobo (B&W, C41, E6, B&W prints, RA4 prints). Sure there are differences due to continuous agitation but they're pretty minor and I doubt there are many people who could tell the difference between an inversion developed and rotary developed negative even side by side. It's only in extreme cases (multi-hour stand processing) where it becomes important.

In my case of course, cost is a big driver. It costs me about $1/roll for C41 and $4/roll for E6 in chemistry to run my Jobo vs $10 to $15 at the lab. My Jobo pays for its whole purchase price ($600) every year on that basis of comparison. And when I develop B&W, I use less than half as much Xtol (100mL vs 250mL to cover a 120 roll at 1+1) and I can develop 6 rolls at a time instead of maybe 2 - the time savings are immense. And arguably, time is your biggest cost; $5 for a roll of film is irrelevant if you have to spend a whole hour processing it!

Stone: since you have a rotary base already, I suggest you get a cheap 2553 and 3 of 2502 spirals and use them on your roller. It won't leak, and you can do 6 at once! If you end up buying a Jobo for the temp control, you'll have an extra tank to use with it.

 

[pbromaghin]

Well at least one of my threads have had a positive outcome for once haha!

Well, you may talk nonsense, but not everybody who responds to you does.

Nah, you're okay, I like having you around. At least you take pictures of hot chicks.

 

[StoneNYC]

Well, you may talk nonsense, but not everybody who responds to you does.

Nah, you're okay, I like having you around. At least you take pictures of hot chicks.

Haha great all I'm good for is boobs... Hahaha

Now you sound like my girlfriend... Haha


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[mweintraub]

I've been interested in roll processing also. I can't afford a Jobo now, so I'm looking at one of those other rollers.

What else am I looking for to complete the kit?
Are there specific types of tanks better for rolling?

 

[Chris Lange]

Ideally you want a tank that doesn't have tapered sides and maintains a uniform diameter along its length, so that it will not be crooked when laid on its side. Any set of rollers will do, really, though a system that does both forward and reverse agitation is best, I think. I know my jobo does something like a revolution and a half in one direction, and then reverses it. I can imagine stainless steel reels and tanks working very well, due to their ease of acquisition and their straight profiles. some tape around the lip of the lid to reduce any possibility of leaking and you're off to the races.

 

[Pioneer]

I also have the Jobo 1509 roller set. No motor so everything is done by hand. Forward and reverse rotation is no problem! I use my Jobo tanks but the rollers can be set to different configurations so the Paterson or Arista Premium tanks work as well.

 

[jerrybro]

Before I bought the Jobo I converted a Beseler motor base to hold a Jobo tank by the magnetic base. Using that sold me on the merits of continous agitation.

 

[MattKing]

A Paterson System 4 tank with a couple of heavy duty rubber bands works fine on my Beseler base.