Can I use E6 BLIX for C41 ?

[pentaxpete]

My C41 Fuji Bleach is totally exhausted -- i tried to order some Kodak 'Flexicolor' 2x5L but supplier told me Kodak Sold their Chemistry division to CHINA and now there are 'Supply Problems' !! I have some E6 bleach-fix i a Paterson '2NA' bottle.
It doesn;t look very 'Strong' when Diluted 1 + 2 -- will it work ? How long should I give it at 100 oF ? I have spoilt some 120 Konica Vx 400 Super using the Fuji Bleach -- I got 'magenta' areas and strange white 'Bits' in sky .

 

[Donald Qualls]

They do the same thing -- convert all image silver to a soluble form, and dissolve it -- so they should be interchangeable in either process. I'd give the E-6 blix the same time the E-6 process you sourced it from calls for on E-6 film.

BTW, magenta cast after the blix is likely due to active developer getting in the bleach; make sure you're either using a mild acid stop bath or giving at least a full minute water wash with at least two changes of water, between color developer and blix.

 

[mshchem]

My C41 Fuji Bleach is totally exhausted -- i tried to order some Kodak 'Flexicolor' 2x5L but supplier told me Kodak Sold their Chemistry division to CHINA and now there are 'Supply Problems' !! I have some E6 bleach-fix i a Paterson '2NA' bottle.
It doesn;t look very 'Strong' when Diluted 1 + 2 -- will it work ? How long should I give it at 100 oF ? I have spoilt some 120 Konica Vx 400 Super using the Fuji Bleach -- I got 'magenta' areas and strange white 'Bits' in sky .

Just as a note, Kodak Alaris has had China plant (SinoPromise) produce all Kodak color chemistry for many years. It works great. If you can get 1x5 L of Kodak's Flexicolor Bleach C-41RA, it will drop your bleach time to 1 minute, this stuff is immortal, lasts forever, replenishment is something like 5 mL per roll. You need to buy a bottle of bleach starter too. As for fixer Fuji sells a universal fixer that can be used for C-41 and E6.

Back to original question I have no experience trying Paterson chemistry, but I would bet it would work. Wouldn't use it on anything critical, probably would want to extend your blix time a bit.
Best Regards Mike

 

[Truzi]

I think PE had mentioned some issue between swapping the two, but I don't remember what it was.

 

[afriman]

If that bleach-fix is the original contents of the Paterson 2NA bottle, then it is C41 bleach-fix, not E6. It's also very old. 2NA was a "universal" process for C41 film and EP2 paper. It was marketed by Paterson as a two-step "no-additive" (hence the 2NA) alternative to the Photocolor II process, which required a "print additive" to be added to the developer when processing prints.

 

[pentaxpete]

Today tried a Ilford XP2 400 Super 120 -- i added some Acetic Acid to the Fuji Bleach as I res somewhere it 'does it good' then gave some minutes in THAT then poured in the Paterson 2NA stuff for a few minutes. then washed with water at 100oF then into my Champion C41 FIX for a few minutes to see what happened -- the FILM loks very REDDISH but there are IMAGES on it ! It is drying now -- see how it ';'scans' !! I have been trying to Source that Kodak C41 RA bleach here in England.

 

[afriman]

The Paterson 2NA kit was available from 1984 until about 1998, so that bleach-fix is rather long in the tooth! It would be interesting to know if it is still usable at all, but I definitely wouldn't count on it. Surely you should be able to source some C41 bleach, if not from Kodak then from other suppliers of minilab chemistry? Alternatively you could consider mixing your own -- there are some discussions of various formulas on these forums.

 

[MattKing]

Perhaps these folks can help: https://www.processuk.net/

 

[pentaxpete]

Matt Ha Ha ! Process Supplies were the firm who told me about Kodak / China business and Bleach has 'Supply Problems' due to that --
I have enquired with TETENAL Limited UK and they can supply CHAMPION Chemistry but I need to set up an 'Account' with them . I wold like to find a Supplier for that Kodak Flexicolor Bleach C41RA

 

[MattKing]

The Kodak colour chemicals are coming from the same people as before - same employees, same physical resources. They are just owned and employed by a different entity.
The change of ownership probably added to disruption that relates to the pandemic.

 

[mshchem]

Matt Ha Ha ! Process Supplies were the firm who told me about Kodak / China business and Bleach has 'Supply Problems' due to that --
I have enquired with TETENAL Limited UK and they can supply CHAMPION Chemistry but I need to set up an 'Account' with them . I wold like to find a Supplier for that Kodak Flexicolor Bleach C41RA

I would try again with the Process Supplies folks. The C41RA bleach is the same as I get here in the states. My vendor Unique photo will split the package of 2 x 5L into a single 5L bottle this single bottle replenished will last for hundreds of rolls. You will need a single 1200mL bottle of bleach starter, the starter has a very strong odor of acetic acid. I would think you need a "sympathetic ear" on the phone at the vendor that will make a bit more of an effort to help you out. Fuji and Kodak make fixers, I've even used regular Kodak rapid fixer before when I was stuck. Best would be to get a supply house that will help out.
Good luck, Mike

 

[mshchem]

Here's another. They sell the Fuji version of C41RA bleach, works the same. I believe all the Fuji chemistry for Europe is made in Holland?

https://swains.co.uk/

 

[koraks]

I believe all the Fuji chemistry for Europe is made in Holland?

Nope, Fuji Tilburg/The Netherlands makes stuff like paper (formerly film as well up to probably 2002 or so). You're thinking of Fuji Hunt in Belgium.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Dear Friend
You can first.
Use copper bleach
((100 grams of copper sulfate + 100 grams of deiodized sodium chloride in one liter of deionized water)) for three minutes.
Then wash with water for two minutes
Then a cleaning solution (table vinegar 3%) for two minutes with violent stirring
Then wash with water for one minute
Then you can use Blix
Then you complete the rest of the steps.

 

[mshchem]

Nope, Fuji Tilburg/The Netherlands makes stuff like paper (formerly film as well up to probably 2002 or so). You're thinking of Fuji Hunt in Belgium.

Well at least I got the right continent! Pretty good for an American . I should have said Benelux countries.

 

[koraks]

That would have been right on the money
I've know a few people who worked at this particular Fuji plant. It also happens to be at walking distance from my home.

 

[mshchem]

That would have been right on the money
I've know a few people who worked at this particular Fuji plant. It also happens to be at walking distance from my home.

That's sweet. I would be getting to be friends with whomever samples products for testing. It would be a shame for that lovely stuff to go to waste treatment!

 

[pentaxpete]

I have managed to source C41 Bleach from TETENAL UK in Leicester -- Champion type -- very expensive and had to open an account before they would let me buy it -- it should arrive MONDAY . It needs NO 'Starter' 140335 - CHAMPION C41 MYDONEG UNIVERSAL AIR BLEACH REPLENISHER - ODOURLESS 4 X 2L = £76.28 + vat

 

[foc]

I have managed to source C41 Bleach from TETENAL UK in Leicester -- Champion type -- very expensive and had to open an account before they would let me buy it -- it should arrive MONDAY . It needs NO 'Starter' 140335 - CHAMPION C41 MYDONEG UNIVERSAL AIR BLEACH REPLENISHER - ODOURLESS 4 X 2L = £76.28 + vat

You should get 6L from each bottle when you mix it. So that's a total of 24L of bleach working solution if my calculations are correct.
That's a lot of bleach.

 

[pentaxpete]

OH -- I was not aware it had to be DILUTED -- also I hope there will be instructions on how LONG to process the film for at 100oF .

 

[foc]

In traditional C41 processing, the bleach @ 38C, can be timed between 4 to 6 minutes
Check with your existing C41 kit instructions. It's the developer that is important.
Again traditionally dev is 3 min 15 sec @38C. The temperature and time for the rest don't have to be so precise. You can have +/- 5C without any problem and it is hard to over bleach or fix (unless you leave them in for a long time).
I would take the max time for bleach and fix as suggested in the instructions, that way you can't go wrong.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

My C41 Fuji Bleach is totally exhausted -- i tried to order some Kodak 'Flexicolor' 2x5L but supplier told me Kodak Sold their Chemistry division to CHINA and now there are 'Supply Problems' !! I have some E6 bleach-fix i a Paterson '2NA' bottle.
It doesn;t look very 'Strong' when Diluted 1 + 2 -- will it work ? How long should I give it at 100 oF ? I have spoilt some 120 Konica Vx 400 Super using the Fuji Bleach -- I got 'magenta' areas and strange white 'Bits' in sky .

Tetenals C-41 and E-6 Blix appears to be the same. The bottles of the the E-6 kits I use say C-41/E-6 on the labels for the blix.

 

[mohmad khatab]

I have managed to source C41 Bleach from TETENAL UK in Leicester -- Champion type -- very expensive and had to open an account before they would let me buy it -- it should arrive MONDAY . It needs NO 'Starter' 140335 - CHAMPION C41 MYDONEG UNIVERSAL AIR BLEACH REPLENISHER - ODOURLESS 4 X 2L = £76.28 + vat

This is a very high cost.
You shouldn't have done that.
If you had followed the plan I told you about, you wouldn't have to spend just £4.
as you like . enjoy

 

[pentaxpete]

The Mydoneg was delivered from Tetenal UK this morning There are NO TIMES given only a lot of different DILUTIONS according to how strong you want to use the 'Replenisher' solution. Of course, it is really designed for a 'MINI-LAB MACHINE; NOT 'Paterson Dev Tanks ! I THINK I must use the 5ml/135mm film Replenish strength but diluting the 2 litre solution 700mls Replenisher + 300mls Water to make the 'Working Strength ' Solution.

 

[halfaman]

I think this is a C41-RA type bleach, in Tetenal UK site says "Designed for minilabs with a 50 second or longer bleach time". For manual or Jobo-like processing I would extend it to 60 seconds.

CHAMPION C41 MYDONEG UNIVERSAL AIR BLEACH REPLENISHER - ODOURLESS 4 X 2L | Tetenal (tetenaluk.com)

Replenishment rates of the box are for minilab machines, not for manual processing. You would need to find your replenishment rate by yourself or follow Kodak recomendation for rotary processor (used it twice and discard).