can i tell if my Flexicolor part C is still good from the color?

destroya · May 22, 2022

I found this partly used set of flexicor c41 chems. was about to order some fuji as kodak chems are not available, I thought before I ordered I would ask if this was usable. I know I could just mix up a small batch test with a junk roll and see for myself. but thought I would just ask a quick question.

PE back in 2014 posted that " Part C, when good, is yellow to tea colored. If it is brown or tarry it is bad. If it is bad, bad color and contrast result or there is no image at all."

so here is a small pict of my developer set. would you consider this tea color? the bottle says it was opened in 10/19. I top off all my chems with propane and it seems to keep them for a while longer than I ever thought possible (at least my e-6 fuji stock chems). thoughts?

john

mohmad khatab · May 22, 2022

The most important question:
What if I am sure that the contents of the package (C) have become unusable?
what can I do
I have CD4, can I make 1 liter from package A and B and then add 4.8 grams (CD4)? Is this idea acceptable in principle?

Tom Taylor · May 22, 2022

Yes that's tea colored and, from past experience, it's still good.

Thomas

destroya · May 22, 2022

Tom Taylor said:
Yes that's tea colored and, from past experience, it's still good.

Thomas

thanks, Ill give it a try then on a roll so find out.

all I want for my B-day is for color chems to become available again.

pentaxuser · May 22, 2022

Looks tea coloured to me as well

pentaxuser

destroya · May 22, 2022

film is drying and it looks good. little things can make you so happy, you know

Donald Qualls · May 23, 2022

destroya said:
little things can make you so happy, you know

Very true. Finding out what you already have will do the job isn't necessarily a little thing, though (IMO).

nickandre · May 23, 2022

When it looks like black death it's bad. It will start light orange and darken over time.

FYI some of these concentrates don't last very long in half filled bottles. You can either decant into full glass and/or top off the concentrate with butane from a lighter to purge out oxygen.

Donald Qualls · May 23, 2022

The replenisher form may actually keep better (in something like a repurposed PET beverage bottle or wine bladder) than the concentrate does in a partial bottle. Tricky part with partial bottles like that is knowing how much they're supposed to still make. Careful measurement of remaining volume compared to what's listed on the bottles may tell.

nickandre · May 23, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
The replenisher form may actually keep better (in something like a repurposed PET beverage bottle or wine bladder) than the concentrate does in a partial bottle. Tricky part with partial bottles like that is knowing how much they're supposed to still make. Careful measurement of remaining volume compared to what's listed on the bottles may tell.

Yeah in my crazier days I performed the exercise in insanity using syringes to measure out 4 liter batches of flexicolor by converting everything to mL. These days I've settled on ordering 5 liter kits, mixing them in a full batch, storing developer in full glass bottles, and using one shot in Jobo. A lot less painful

If you are mixing Kodak flexicolor I think your best move is as Donald says: mix the developer in a batch and store in completely full glass bottles. A combination of 4L, 1L, 500mL, and 250mL is usually sufficient to store the full kit. For RA4 I've been using Amazon plastic bladders for 5L although 10L is managable. Blix is surprisingly fast to go once mixed relative to full bottles of RA4 dev. I think with blix you need to store it in glass and then oxygenate during use (oxygen kills the fix but is required for the bleach component). Bleach has no problem with oxygen on its own, although fixer does.

Donald Qualls · May 23, 2022

nickandre said:
Yeah in my crazier days I performed the exercise in insanity using syringes to measure out 4 liter batches of flexicolor by converting everything to mL.

I cheated a little and found a chart on the internet showing how much of each component (including starter) goes into X amount of tank solution (whether one-shot or replenished, the tank solution is or ought to be the same) and mixed 1 liter; used another chart on the same page to mix 1 liter of replenisher. I looked the other day, my Part C also looks to be okay, so I'll mix 3 L of replenisher to go in the wine bladders I bought and then mix that with starter to make new tank solution when I start up my C-41 again (been down about a year).

I have separated bleach and fixer for C-41, and they keep very well. Might try going that way for RA-4 if/when I get to do that.

nickandre · May 23, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
I cheated a little and found a chart on the internet showing how much of each component (including starter) goes into X amount of tank solution (whether one-shot or replenished, the tank solution is or ought to be the same) and mixed 1 liter; used another chart on the same page to mix 1 liter of replenisher. I looked the other day, my Part C also looks to be okay, so I'll mix 3 L of that to go in the wine bladders I bought and then mix that with starter to make new tank solution when I start up my C-41 again (been down about a year).

I have separated bleach and fixer for C-41, and they keep very well. Might try going that way for RA-4 if/when I get to do that.

FYI my recollection from chatting with PE a decade ago was that you can use replenisher straight. The whole starter business is for process control in a replenished system to season the tank solution to working levels. That doesn't sound totally correct to me (perhaps you want to dilute the replenisher slightly?).

Yeah separate bleach is better but it does substantially extend the process times and requires I fit even more absurd volumes of chemistry into my apartment I think the incremental cost savings assuming you don't waste chemistry is more than 50% of a 5L kit from Adorama, but I got substantial cost savings by using a rotary processor which can do 8 rolls of 120 with 850mL chemistry single shot.

Donald Qualls · May 23, 2022

What I recall is that bleach and fixer don't need starter, but color developer does -- otherwise you'll be pushing at the canonical 3:15 time, and may get color shifts or crossover because the layers won't get developed evenly (because developing faster than normal). One-shot methods I've seen require starter (though not much, and it's quite cheap -- the expense is in the color developer as you use the most of that).

nickandre · May 23, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
What I recall is that bleach and fixer don't need starter, but color developer does -- otherwise you'll be pushing at the canonical 3:15 time, and may get color shifts or crossover because the layers won't get developed evenly (because developing faster than normal). One-shot methods I've seen require starter (though not much, and it's quite cheap -- the expense is in the color developer as you use the most of that).

That sounds more plausible. I think you can get away with just dilution and no starter though? Not entirely sure. Probably safer if you're going that route to do it all unless you're set up to do densitometry on process control strips.

btaylor · May 23, 2022

I agree with nickandre, I also seem to remember PE saying that C41 developer replenisher does not need to be used with starter. Seemed odd to me too- but if that’s what he said I am going with his advice.

nickandre · May 23, 2022

btaylor said:
I agree with nickandre, I also seem to remember PE saying that C41 developer replenisher does not need to be used with starter. Seemed odd to me too- but if that’s what he said I am going with his advice.

He references it here:

Flexicolor developer replenisher without starter

I found that Oriental sells Flexicolor Developer Replenisher LORR equivalent at reasonable price - 4 x 10liter kits for about $50 including shipping. I'd like to try it out, but don't have the Starter LORR. Kodak here(Japan) lists the Starter, so I could find it somewhere, but not localy. Do I...

www.photrio.com

mtjade2007 · May 25, 2022

PE also said he wasn't too sure because it has been too long. Here is my view why it would be too hot by using the replenisher alone without the starter. According to Kodak's mixing instruction on the bottle label of my starter chemical you need to add the starter and water to the replenisher to make the working developer. This means the replenisher is diluted by the starter and water a bit. I think this is one reason why the replanisher alone is too hot. I don't know if there are other reasons.

mtjade2007 · May 25, 2022

By the way, the part C bottle are probably bottled without Oxygen in the bottle. According to PE once the bottle is opened eveen you recap it tightly it will go bad quickly. That was indeed the case to me. I had several cases of the LORR developer replenisher unused. I foolishly opened the cap of one part C bottle and recapped it. A few month later that bottle turned black while all other part C bottles had no change. That was 10 liters of replenisher gone.

lantau · May 26, 2022

After two years all my unopened bottles C were black.

Donald Qualls · May 26, 2022

I, OTOH, have a set of LORR color developer that I opened and used part of to mix tank solution and replenisher in 2020 and a couple weeks ago the Part C looked just like the picture up thread. Dunno why the difference...

lantau · May 26, 2022

lantau said:
After two years all my unopened bottles C were black.

Donald Qualls said:
I, OTOH, have a set of LORR color developer that I opened and used part of to mix tank solution and replenisher in 2020 and a couple weeks ago the Part C looked just like the picture up thread. Dunno why the difference...

Oops, I just realised that I mixed this up with Ektacolor for RA4. My Flexicolor should be okay. Sorry.

tbeaman · May 30, 2022

Yeah, I still have some unopened C-41sm developer kits that have an expiry of 2013, and the last I checked the Part C was still tea colored. Anyway, I know I mixed and used some successfully last around 2018. It always shocks me when I check and find that it’s still good. I’ll have to look again and report back.

foc · May 31, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
I cheated a little and found a chart on the internet showing how much of each component (including starter) goes into X amount of tank solution

Hi Donald, do you have a link to that chart, please?

Donald Qualls · May 31, 2022

Not while I'm at work, and I don't recall whether I bookmarked the one I found or (as insurance against loss of a hosted file) just downloaded it to my local storage. I'll try to remember to check when I'm home.

RPC · May 31, 2022

mohmad khatab said:
I have CD4, can I make 1 liter from package A and B and then add 4.8 grams (CD4)? Is this idea acceptable in principle?

Yes, I have done this and it works. If your package makes replenisher, then you must add water and starter in correct amounts and adjust the pH if necessary to use as a working solution developer.

PE has said no starter is needed for Kodak RA-4 RA-RT Developer/Replenisher, but is required for C-41 for proper results. My findings as well.

can i tell if my Flexicolor part C is still good from the color?

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