Can film negatives get any cheaper?

[marciofs]

The cheapest film negatives I have access here is Fomapan 400 and 100, as well as Paradis colour films brand but they only make 35mm.

But I see more manufactures are trying to come along, and it seems more people are choosing to shoot film. Does it means it can get cheaper?

 

[Wayne]

Not bloody likely. Does anything get cheaper? (other than gasoline, at the moment). I think there would have to be a glut of new film makers making films that compete directly with existing films before competition drove prices down.

 

[removed account4]

i am always surprised that it ISN"T cheaper.
the price of silver is $17.25 a troy oz.
a few years ago it was more than 2x that
not to mention oil is in the tank too,
and prices haven't come down.

 

[Xmas]

The cheapest film negatives I have access here is Fomapan 400 and 100, as well as Paradis colour films brand but they only make 35mm.

But I see more manufactures are trying to come along, and it seems more people are choosing to shoot film. Does it means it can get cheaper?

No the cost is materials, plant and salaries 'fixed' for any site, ignoring inflation.
As volume drops the cost increases, even for materials.

Ferranni are hoping to fill an E6 gap but until they discover the volume the price point is volatile.

Adox are also refurbishing a coater so that they will be independent of 3rd parties. Ditto on price point.

APX100 was real cheap after the Leverkausen factory was closed.

 

[Henning Serger]

The cheapest film negatives I have access here is Fomapan 400 and 100, as well as Paradis colour films brand but they only make 35mm.

But I see more manufactures are trying to come along, and it seems more people are choosing to shoot film. Does it means it can get cheaper?

No.
Because we have gigantic surplus capacities in the market. All manufacturers are suffering from the fact that their capacities are much much bigger than the current demand. So the relation of fixed costs relative to production volume is bad. No one in the business is making a real, good, sustainable profit (exception: Fuji Instax). Some are making losses.
With the current worldwide capacities more than 10x of the current volume could be produced.
With rising demand and production the problematic cost situation improves, that is right. That makes it at least a bit easier for the manufacturers to survive. But it will not be enough to lower prices.
The best scenario could be that prices can be kept stable, and that with increasing income over the years film will get cheaper in relative terms.

Buy the way: Lots of films are still cheaper compared to 20-30 years ago if you consider inflation. My costs for film at that time were higher. Developing and color paper (at least in Germany) is much much cheaper today (with calculated inflation) than 20-30 years ago.
Film is cheap. Use it, the more the better. The more the better the chance that we have a sustainable film future with affordable costs.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Echoes]

No the cost is materials, plant and salaries 'fixed' for any site, ignoring inflation.
As volume drops the cost increases, even for materials.

Ferranni are hoping to fill an E6 gap but until they discover the volume the price point is volatile.

Adox are also refurbishing a coater so that they will be independent of 3rd parties. Ditto on price point.

APX100 was real cheap after the Leverkausen factory was closed.

What were the prices of APX100, 25 and 400? Anyone from Europe remember?

 

[railwayman3]

i am always surprised that it ISN"T cheaper.
the price of silver is $17.25 a troy oz.
a few years ago it was more than 2x that
not to mention oil is in the tank too,
and prices haven't come down.

The amount of silver in a single film is minimal. The real costs are manufacture, packaging, wages, overheads, distribution and a profit margin for the wholesaler/retailer. Some of these, e.g. factory maintenance, overheads and the cost of capital will be there before a single film is produced.

 

[Xmas]

...
With rising demand
...

Mini labs are still closing here. It would be a brave person who bought a new one or an operational used one.
If you want to start using film it is more difficult and expensive unless you home process?
I used E6 from '02-'06 when it got too difficult.
Instax and Impossible don't have that problem.
The boom in film from '70 on was partly fast mini lab turn around partly cheap mini labs.
This compromised instant back then.

Noel

 

[Anon Ymous]

What were the prices of APX100, 25 and 400? Anyone from Europe remember?

There was a boatload of APX100 and I had bought some back then (2009) for 1,30€ per 36exp roll (26€ for 20 rolls). Oh boy, I certainly miss it...

 

[jeffreythree]

I don't think it can get much cheaper. 1978 Adorama ad has Tri-X 36 exp for US$1.25(4.57 in today's US $), and US$4.75 on their website right now. Color makes it look even worse with $1.89($6.90 in today's $) in the ad for Kodacolor and $2.99 for Kodacolor Plus today.

 

[Xmas]

There was a boatload of APX100 and I had bought some back then (2009) for 1,30€ per 36exp roll (26€ for 20 rolls). Oh boy, I certainly miss it...

Confirmed about 1.60£ per 36 exp 2007, UK always dear.

 

[Slixtiesix]

Even with film on the rise again and the silver prices falling, I doubt that it will become significantly cheaper. Film, paper and chemicals were dirt cheap 15 years ago. I sometimes miss the old times when looking through old catalogues. B/W film was less than half of what it is now, slide film around 1/3, FB paper around 1/3 to 1/4 depending on manufacturer. The price increase of FB paper especially and of slide film is what hurts me most... I think the price of B/W film is still okay.

 

[pentaxuser]

Film, paper and chemicals were dirt cheap 15 years ago. IThe price increase of FB paper especially and of slide film is what hurts me most... I think the price of B/W film is still okay.

By and large that reflects my impression. Other than a bit of photography in the late 50s as a child who did some simple snapping, I really came to photography in 2003 and then found that for about 3 years afterwards paper prices seemed to get lower then rise substantially after the financial crisis of 2008 when Simon Galley of Ilford attached a lot of the blame to the steep rise in the price of silver and to some extent paper as well.

Alas despite the much lower silver price now ( I cannot say what raw paper prices are like v 2008) there has been no reduction in paper prices. Ilford Postcard paper rose by even more than ordinary MGVCRC and frankly is way beyond "my outer limits of value for money"

pentaxuser

 

[Ian Grant]

The OP is wrong only a few consumer films are cheap, all the films I use are significantly more expensive than they were 5 years ago and that was far higher than 10 years ago even allowing for inflation.

Ian

 

[Anon Ymous]

The OP is wrong only a few consumer films are cheap, all the films I use are significantly more expensive than they were 5 years ago and that was far higher than 10 years ago even allowing for inflation.

Ian

Agreed. If we take into account that some parts of the continent had years of (or still have) deflation, then it gets even worse. I remember paying 7 - 8€ for a 36exp roll of Velvia 50 back in 2008, which felt like paying through the nose. Nowadays it costs double that! Tri-X was 3,50€, now it is 5,50€. In 2009 or 2010, Ektar 100 was priced 4,50€, but has risen above 7€. Perhaps things are more favorable if we go back 3 decades or so, but film has become much more expensive that what it recently was.

 

[marciofs]

No.
Because we have gigantic surplus capacities in the market. All manufacturers are suffering from the fact that their capacities are much much bigger than the current demand. So the relation of fixed costs relative to production volume is bad. No one in the business is making a real, good, sustainable profit (exception: Fuji Instax). Some are making losses.
With the current worldwide capacities more than 10x of the current volume could be produced.
With rising demand and production the problematic cost situation improves, that is right. That makes it at least a bit easier for the manufacturers to survive. But it will not be enough to lower prices.
The best scenario could be that prices can be kept stable, and that with increasing income over the years film will get cheaper in relative terms.

Buy the way: Lots of films are still cheaper compared to 20-30 years ago if you consider inflation. My costs for film at that time were higher. Developing and color paper (at least in Germany) is much much cheaper today (with calculated inflation) than 20-30 years ago.
Film is cheap. Use it, the more the better. The more the better the chance that we have a sustainable film future with affordable costs.

Best regards,
Henning

Interesting info.
I don't think film is expensive. At least the ones that cost less than a €3 per roll I consider a OK price. But most films are above €5 per roll which I consider a high price if you shoot very often.

I have a low income but I don't smoke and I don't drink (and I don't go out because I don't have friends). Otherwise I think I would not be able to buy my film negatives.

And I shoot almost 100% with film negative.

 

[marciofs]

Mini labs are still closing here. It would be a brave person who bought a new one or an operational used one.
If you want to start using film it is more difficult and expensive unless you home process?
I used E6 from '02-'06 when it got too difficult.
Instax and Impossible don't have that problem.
The boom in film from '70 on was partly fast mini lab turn around partly cheap mini labs.
This compromised instant back then.

Noel

In Germany there are some supermarkets chains that have a mini lab in avery one of them. And you can see that many people still are using them.

 

[marciofs]

There was a boatload of APX100 and I had bought some back then (2009) for 1,30€ per 36exp roll (26€ for 20 rolls). Oh boy, I certainly miss it...

Two Years ago I got APX100 for about this price in Freiburg. Paradis is also very very cheap.

 

[marciofs]

The OP is wrong only a few consumer films are cheap, all the films I use are significantly more expensive than they were 5 years ago and that was far higher than 10 years ago even allowing for inflation.

Ian

I think you misread what I wrote, because I didn't say film are cheap or cheaper. I only asked if it could get cheaper with higher volume demand and more competitors

The cheapest film negatives I have access here is Fomapan 400 and 100, as well as Paradis colour films brand but they only make 35mm.

But I see more manufactures are trying to come along, and it seems more people are choosing to shoot film. Does it means it can get cheaper?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Film isn't big deal as of now. Paper prices went up. Significantly. To me bw film is for prints. And this part is around one dollar per one 8x10.

 

[RattyMouse]

I remember when Acros was $2.50 per roll. That was only 4-5 years ago ! I wish I stocked up back then!!

 

[marciofs]

I remember when Acros was $2.50 per roll. That was only 4-5 years ago ! I wish I stocked up back then!!

I don't remember how much cheaper it was but I remember it was cheaper. It was my number one film negative for portrait. Now I use Fomapan 200 instead.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I remember when Acros was $2.50 per roll. That was only 4-5 years ago ! I wish I stocked up back then!!

That must have been Freestyle's Legacy Pro 100 rebrand.

 

[RattyMouse]

That must have been Freestyle's Legacy Pro 100 rebrand.

No it was Acros 100 from Fujifilm. Used to be dirt cheap. Not anymore.

 

[marciofs]

No it was Acros 100 from Fujifilm. Used to be dirt cheap. Not anymore.

Across 100 became very popular with the popularity of long exposure and pinhole photography. This is probably why it became expansive... People will buy it for long exposures no matter the price.

What makes me sad is the Fuji ISO 400 continued. I guess the ISO 400 is not the most popular choice for long exposures and pinholes. So they killed it and forced everyone to purchase the across 100.

What I am saying here is not a specialist truth, but my speculation.