The light source is IR infrared and requires a second scan (doubling scan time) with it to compare images. Those marks that only appear on the IR scan are removed. The problem with Kodachrome and BW films is that they are thicker and have grains in the layers that appear as marks. That's why you can;t use ICE with them. You have to use ICE only with Chromes like Ektachrome or chromogenic BW films. I;m not sure about Tmax and other similar films. or color negative film. Others will have to chime in.
You can scan Kodachrome with ICE using Coolscans (V, 5000 and 9000) + Nikonscan compared to the Epson V500. The aberrations are most prominent around the high contrast transitions - dark and light overlaps, as you can see below.
Effectiveness of ICE on Kodachrome by Les DMess, on Flickr
Notice this on the exhaust and shadow area. Very visible on the Epson scan, only visible with high magnifications on the 5000 and perfect with the 9000.
Why can't Epson scanners do it?
I didn't say you can't just that the results may not be ideal. I am assuming that when you said "That's why you can;t use ICE with them." that you've tried it yourself on your Epson flatbeds since I believe you have two of them?
The Canoscan FS4000 dedicated film scanner - and other models, uses FARE instead of ICE and the results are completely incoherent according to samples posted by the user.
No, I haven't tried ICE on film not recommended by Epson to use it on. Frankly, I don't use ICE on film I can use it on. I find it's not perfect. So I have to go back in editing afterward to clone out the remaining dust and other spots. So I keep ICE off and I just do it all the spotting myself. Maybe I should try using ICE again. With my V850, I notice I have a lot more dust than on my older V600.
In any case, why would Epson tell us not to use it on certain films if it works? What's the point scanning with ICE and getting weird results?
It's how you feel after you finally clean your house.You could say I'm from the Show Me State. For entertainment purposes just to see just how good or bad it is . . .
I owned a few Epsons and never saw it specifically stated not to use ICE on Kodachrome until just now.
I knew someone on another forum who shot nothing but Kodachrome and scanned tens of thousands of frames with the FS4000. Even after he eventually acquired the Coolscan 9000, he still continued to not use ICE. He said spotting the scans was good for the soul.
For the Coolscan (V, 5000 and 9000) Nikonscan ICE was licensed from ASF (Applied Science Fiction) which was acquired by Kodak shortly after. I recall that Ed Hamrick (Vuescan) didn't have the license and therefore couldn't use this in the software back then. I don't know if that has since changed.
You could say I'm from the Show Me State. For entertainment purposes just to see just how good or bad it is . . .
I owned a few Epsons and never saw it specifically stated not to use ICE on Kodachrome until just now.
I knew someone on another forum who shot nothing but Kodachrome and scanned tens of thousands of frames with the FS4000. Even after he eventually acquired the Coolscan 9000, he still continued to not use ICE. He said spotting the scans was good for the soul.
The light source is IR infrared and requires a second scan (doubling scan time) with it to compare images. Those marks that only appear on the IR scan are removed. The problem with Kodachrome and BW films is that they are thicker and have grains in the layers that appear as marks. That's why you can;t use ICE with them. You have to use ICE only with Chromes like Ektachrome or chromogenic BW films. I;m not sure about Tmax and other similar films. or color negative film. Others will have to chime in.
The problem with Kodachrome and B&W film is they still have the silver on the substrate, and that reflects the IR in whacky ways, and confuses the heck out of the scanner.
With C41 film, the silver is completely removed during the developing process, so ICE/iSRD works just fine.
The problem with Kodachrome and B&W film is they still have the silver on the substrate, and that reflects the IR in whacky ways, and confuses the heck out of the scanner.
FS4000 wasn't the peak of Nikon scanning. It was a great scanner but wasn't nearly as good as V or 5000.
Epson never said "to not use ICE on Kodachrome." Fake news.
Few are aware that Kodachrome went through big changes around the time E6 was being introduced and that was not noticed by anybody who merely used it for slide shows.
FS4000 wasn't the peak of Nikon scanning. It was a great scanner but wasn't nearly as good as V or 5000.
Epson never said "to not use ICE on Kodachrome." Fake news.
Few are aware that Kodachrome went through big changes around the time E6 was being introduced and that was not noticed by anybody who merely used it for slide shows.
The light source is IR infrared and requires a second scan (doubling scan time) with it to compare images. Those marks that only appear on the IR scan are removed. The problem with Kodachrome and BW films is that they are thicker and have grains in the layers that appear as marks. That's why you can;t use ICE with them. You have to use ICE only with Chromes like Ektachrome or chromogenic BW films. I;m not sure about Tmax and other similar films. or color negative film. Others will have to chime in.
Correct for B&W, but I don't think this is true for Kodachrome.
A special case regarding dust and scratch removal are black and white film and Kodachrome film. Unlike color slides or color negatives, the scanner’s infrared rays can not permeate through the film emulsion, due to the silver halide layer contained in the film. This means that infrared based tools like iSRD, ICE, FARE or MagicTouch can not be used here.
SRDx, our software-based dust and scratch removal, has been developed especially for these cases. SRDx ensures an effective removal of dust and scratches even for B/W film and Kodachromes.
SilverFast has the reason wrong.
It's absurd for the Wiki to even hint that heat "might cause deterioration" because as we all must know, Kodachrome is/was all about heat-mounted slides in hot Kodak projectors and its longevity in careless storage is phenomenally good.
Apparently, only the Nikon Coolscans have an implementation of ICE that works with Kodachrome - with the Coolscan 9000 being perfect. Here's another Kodachrome from the early 60's and I compare DSLR scanning (no ICE at all) with the Coolscan 9000.I get what you're saying, and I read the same wikipedia article. On the other hand, SilverFast is supposed to be experts on their own software, so I'll let you take it up with them.
Personally, I have no kodachrome to scan, so it's a moot issue for me. But, in simplest terms, neither Kodachrome nor B&W will work with infrared dust removal, because both block infrared wavelengths.
Where did it say that?
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