Camera System for Low-light, Long-exposure

[Les Sarile]

One feature that all the cameras mentioned are missing (I think!) is a viewfinder blind.

Because the Pentax LX metering is unaffected with light entering the viewfinder and therefore does not need a viewfinder blind. This is the same for the OM2 and OM4.

 

[GRHazelton]

The Pentax LX has no need of a viewfinder blind, since the meter reads light falling on the film. The exposure indicated in the viewfinder display merely indicates the approximate exposure.

 

[klownshed]

The Pentax LX has no need of a viewfinder blind, since the meter reads light falling on the film. The exposure indicated in the viewfinder display merely indicates the approximate exposure.

The OM-2 works in exactly the same way. I believe the Olympus was the first camera with off film metering.

Another potential issue (as opposed to metering errors) can be light leaks through the viewfinder during daylight LE photography. The mirror doesn't always seal the viewfinder 100% when up and this can cause issues during a long exposure especially with a strong back light

In most situations this isn't a problem due to the usually insignificant amount of light that can find it's way to the film from the viewfinder, the mirror usually seals the path more than adequately, but under certain circumstances can become an issue.

 

[Richard Man]

SInce long exposure means putting it on tripod, I would actually highly recommend a MF camera. You are not going to take lots of photos so the cost of 120 is not that bad, and you get much bigger negatives to play with.

 

[locutus]

And by that argument you can just as well go for large format.... i think its clear OP asked about 35mm.

 

[GRHazelton]

The OM-2 works in exactly the same way. I believe the Olympus was the first camera with off film metering.

Another potential issue (as opposed to metering errors) can be light leaks through the viewfinder during daylight LE photography. The mirror doesn't always seal the viewfinder 100% when up and this can cause issues during a long exposure especially with a strong back light

In most situations this isn't a problem due to the usually insignificant amount of light that can find it's way to the film from the viewfinder, the mirror usually seals the path more than adequately, but under certain circumstances can become an issue.

I think you're right about the OM-2. Interesting about possible leaks past the mirror, I hadn't thought about that.

 

[trythis]

I will second the FE or an F3 which has mirror lockup. Both have very nice aperture priority auto exposure that work in the dark. Well beyond the stated exposure length.
With the timer, the FE locks up the mirror before the exposure starts and the F3 has so many focusing screen and viefindee options. You could build a very complete system around this two bodies with allsorts of bits and baubs.

 

[yessammassey]

I'll second Les' comments on the Pentax LX. I've used mine for moonlight shots on C-41, the total exposure was probably 15 minutes. Perfectly exposed, but really odd color, given the quality of light reflected off the moon.

Fireworks displays were a piece of cake. I wasted a frame or two to determine how long the shutter might remain open, adjusted the aperture appropriately, and then triggered the shutter with a cable release at the first sign of "launch." It goes without saying that a decent tripod is a must, and for the fireworks the winder was a blessing, since toward the end things got hurried. I used an 19mm Vivitar so framing was simple; the show was on the Kanahwa River running through Charleston, WV, and the reflections of the fireworks on the river added a nice touch.

Fireworks are a great example use case for the sorts of things I'm trying to spec for. Usually a few seconds exposure at the most, moving fairly quickly, not always having time to set up and manually time exposures. But moonlit landscapes would definitely be in the wheelhouse, too. The super sure AE of the LX would be a boon in that case, but not a must-have. I'll note that I'm not looking to do any sort of serious or super-involved astro.

One thing I've noticed is that the LX commands an appreciably high price in camera hell. I think I've narrowed down the lenses to look for: K35/2($$$) or M35/3.5; K30/2.8 or M28/2 (both $$$); K24/2.8; M50/1.7; maybe one of the good 135/3.5's someday, too.

Getting in on some M42 Takumars would help pad out my lens lineup without making me wonder why I'm spending so much on vintage 35mm SLR gear, but will the LX's AE metering work normally with adapted M42 lenses, aside from needing to manually stop down to the desired aperture first? Is there anything special about the Pentax-branded adapters?

I'm marking down the LX as the SLR to get, if I get an SLR. It's expensive. Not too crazy compared to a Bessa... but I'm still shopping. One thing I noticed was that when I priced out a nice LX and 35/2 (35mm would be my #1 focal length), it came out pretty close in price to a Konica Hexar AF. It's fitted with great optics, has presumably very low vibration (it's practically silent), AF, AE (down to 30 seconds), and seems like a sleek, portable, fast-to-use camera. I just wonder about the metering and AF performance in moonlight/distant subjects. It defaults to hyperfocal distance (20m) if it can't get a distance value from the reflected IR beams, or you can lock it to infinity with the press of a button, but I wonder if those fallbacks will be good enough. I suppose they would be for small-aperture shooting on a tripod. The other concern is lack of a cable release and true Bulb mode. There is a T mode instead. Again, I suppose this would be OK, as I am not adverse to using the hat trick to end multi-minute exposures.

Does anyone know of any other high-end P&S cameras (Yashica T's, Infinity Styluses and the like) that would be more suitable for my uses than the Hexar? i.e. has real bulb mode or can meter for longer than 30 seconds?

(I feel like I should point out that a G2 is probably a bridge too far in terms of price)

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The Yashica Electro 35 rangefinders were promoted with electronically controlled exposure up to 8 seconds but users have found that this is much greater somewhere around 20 seconds. Get a model with the excellent f/1.7 lens. They can also be quite reasonable.

 

[John Wiegerink]

The Yashica Electro 35 rangefinders were promoted with electronically controlled exposure up to 8 seconds but users have found that this is much greater somewhere around 20 seconds. Get a model with the excellent f/1.7 lens. They can also be quite reasonable.

The Yashica Electro 35 rangefinders were promoted with electronically controlled exposure up to 8 seconds but users have found that this is much greater somewhere around 20 seconds. Get a model with the excellent f/1.7 lens. They can also be quite reasonable.

I'll second that Gerald. I have a GSN loaded with film right now and it's a honey of a camera. Superb lens and yes, very long shutter times. The nice thing about the Yashica GSN's lens is that it's really very useable even at f1.7. At least my sample is anyway. Plus, the size and weight isn't to bad either. Some of the Minox 35's will get you long shutter speeds also and they are the size of a pack of smokes. But, all that said, my favorite was a really nice Nikon F2as I owned. That camera could meter a face in only candle light. It's the only camera I had seller remorse over. Just an outstanding piece of equipment. I now have an F4S and while it is probably a better camera in many ways I have just not warmed to it. I will agree with others here that the Pentax LX is probably king of the 35's when it comes to long, metered exposures. Oh, and don't ever worry about Pentax optics since they are some of the very best made. That goes for lenses all the way back to the old Pentax screw mount also. The Canon T90 was excellent that way also, but if you took a few night shot that were pretty long you had better have brought extra batteries along 'cause you'll need them. Truth is no auto camera will take any better long exposure night scene than even your Minolta SRT-101 with a cable release. It's the metering or "guessing" that gets you the shoot that makes you smile.

 

[ac12]

I am not confident of ANY auto exposure much beyond 1 sec. For stuff like that I would use a hand meter.
IMHO, I would go full manual and BRACKET, because the best shot will likely be the shot that does not match what your meter may tell you to shoot at.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Pin hole camera?

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

and +1 to Olypus OM-2n. Been there, done that.

Regards

Marcelo

 

[yessammassey]

Thanks for the tip on the Yashica Electro 35. I've always liked the look of old 35mm RFs of that era, but never considered that one might be suitable for my uses.

I think I've got what I came for, but speaking of Yashica, I'll throw one more out there in case anyone wants to weigh in on it.

I still need to read up on it. It just caught my eye, and I just like the idea of a (presumably) very well-made 35mm film camera with a (presumably) really good zoom... Contax N1 + 24-85mm Vario-Sonnar.

I could justify that pricy combo by virtue of its zoom lens' versatility... provided that it doesn't go ghost hunting in the dark with point light sources, which I've had some cheaper Nikon AI zooms do in my experience.

 

[GRHazelton]

Fireworks are a great example use case for the sorts of things I'm trying to spec for. Usually a few seconds exposure at the most, moving fairly quickly, not always having time to set up and manually time exposures. But moonlit landscapes would definitely be in the wheelhouse, too. The super sure AE of the LX would be a boon in that case, but not a must-have. I'll note that I'm not looking to do any sort of serious or super-involved astro.

One thing I've noticed is that the LX commands an appreciably high price in camera hell. I think I've narrowed down the lenses to look for: K35/2($$$) or M35/3.5; K30/2.8 or M28/2 (both $$$); K24/2.8; M50/1.7; maybe one of the good 135/3.5's someday, too.

Getting in on some M42 Takumars would help pad out my lens lineup without making me wonder why I'm spending so much on vintage 35mm SLR gear, but will the LX's AE metering work normally with adapted M42 lenses, aside from needing to manually stop down to the desired aperture first? Is there anything special about the Pentax-branded adapters?

I'm marking down the LX as the SLR to get, if I get an SLR. It's expensive. Not too crazy compared to a Bessa... but I'm still shopping. One thing I noticed was that when I priced out a nice LX and 35/2 (35mm would be my #1 focal length), it came out pretty close in price to a Konica Hexar AF. It's fitted with great optics, has presumably very low vibration (it's practically silent), AF, AE (down to 30 seconds), and seems like a sleek, portable, fast-to-use camera. I just wonder about the metering and AF performance in moonlight/distant subjects. It defaults to hyperfocal distance (20m) if it can't get a distance value from the reflected IR beams, or you can lock it to infinity with the press of a button, but I wonder if those fallbacks will be good enough. I suppose they would be for small-aperture shooting on a tripod. The other concern is lack of a cable release and true Bulb mode. There is a T mode instead. Again, I suppose this would be OK, as I am not adverse to using the hat trick to end multi-minute exposures.

Does anyone know of any other high-end P&S cameras (Yashica T's, Infinity Styluses and the like) that would be more suitable for my uses than the Hexar? i.e. has real bulb mode or can meter for longer than 30 seconds?

(I feel like I should point out that a G2 is probably a bridge too far in terms of price)

Full disclosure. As an owner of THREE Pentax LXs, (some of us are insatiable) you should know that there are some endemic concerns. The dreaded sticky mirror is one, caused IIRC by the foam mirror stops getting gummy. As the LX was intended as Pentax's riposte to Nikon and Canon in the professional arena, repairs aren't cheap as is the case for all professional system cameras. Since the LX never achieved the market penetration of Canon or Nikon, the supply of "donor" cameras for spare parts is smaller than is the case for the Canikon boxes. Eric Hendrickson is the man for service here in the US; I need to send at least one of my trio to him. Here's his web site: http://pentaxs.com/index.html Do know that in common with other hybrid mechanical-electronic cameras of its era parts are getting scarce. While mechanical parts can be perhaps robbed from other Pentax cameras, electronic parts are almost certainly unique to the LX. As an aside the LX will give off the film metering with several Pentax and 3rd party flashes. The Pentax AF 400T is one such, a big heavy handle flash it will blister paint if that is your thing. ProMaster also has/had a compatible unit, my experience with both the Pentax and ProMaster units has been very good. Pentaxforums.com is a good source of further info.

BTW while there are adapters to utilize M42 lenses on K mount cameras, be careful, since there are reports of non-Pentax adapters "sticking" on the body or lens. Even so I feel that the LX is what you want for your stated needs. It is also delightful as an everyday shooter. Look for the winder, it is fairly common and generally not too expensive. The motor drive is another matter.....

 

[Les Sarile]

I am not confident of ANY auto exposure much beyond 1 sec. For stuff like that I would use a hand meter.

I am certain confidence can only be achieved with numerous and consistent - i.e. predictable, results. Certainly learning how your meter works (exposure range and pattern) and how film reacts to various lighting conditions will be key in helping to achieve the results we want. Since we are talking about used and old cameras then the reliability and operating condition of the camera will also be very influential in achieving the results we are looking for.