Camera scan light source..........Epson scanner head?

[John Wiegerink]

I didn't want to hijack the other camera scanning light source thread so thought I'd start new. I already have two great scanners (NIKON LS-8000 and the Epson V850), but sometimes just want a quick scan of good quality. Camera scanning sounds like it would be the answer to that. I have copy stands, 42mp camera and 70mm Sigma macro lens, but need a light source. Here's my question. I have an older Epson 2450 scanner that would scan up to 4X5 and was wondering if its light source could be used as a good light source for camera scanning? My little mind said it might work since it was already used for color work in scanning color negatives. I'm sure there might have to be some sort of color filtration used inline, but I have tons of Kodak 4X4 written filters to play with. Any thoughts?

 

[koraks]

Not really; the scanner has a strip source and you need larger surface. You could of course mount the strip source in some kind of enclosure and then use a diffuser to spread out the light onto a 2-dim surface - but why harm the perfectly innocent scanner?

I'm sure there might have to be some sort of color filtration used inline

Not quite; the 'filtering' is mostly just the spectral sensitivity of the CCD photosites in the scanner sensor with some gain and then mathematical adjustments applied to get them to line up sort of correctly.

So much has been published already on camera scanning and color corrections. The long & short of it is that pretty much every approach will work and will have its pros & cons. I personally don't see much sense in hanging on to something that worked in a particular context and then take that for gospel - e.g. the logic that "the flatbed scanner worked for color, therefore its light source must be a good one." The light source was (1) part of an imaging chain and should be understood int he context of both the film and the particular sensor, and (2) was a technical compromise back then as much as it is today.

At a technical/practical level, if the 2450 scanner still used a CFL light source, I definitely would not use that as it's just a matter of time before it dims and/or its power supply/inverter poops out at which point you'll have to re-solve that puzzle again. Why not just go for LED as everyone does; it works.

There's presently several ready-made products out there for camera scanning; I'd pick one that appeals to you and call it good.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Koraks,
I'm talking about using the light source that is in the scanner flip cover that's used for transparency and negative scanning. It's wide enough for 4X5 negatives so size isn't a problem there. It also seems to have very even illumination. The scanner itself works fine, but the 2450's are not worth the effort to even try and sell. I have other backup scanners at my cottage. I might just sacrifice it to see what happens.

 

[koraks]

Are you very sure? On the Epson TPU lids I'm familiar with, the light source in the lid is a traveling bar that 'walks' in sync with the sensor.

 

[Don_ih]

It should work. It's got a fully-illuminated diffused strip. But is there some way to turn it on without tearing apart the scanner and hooking it up directly to power? If not, I'd suggest just buying a cheap light tablet.

 

[Robert Ley]

Forget the scanner as there are much better light sources that won't break the bank. I have been digital camera scanning for a couple of years. I use at present a Kaiser LED light panel that gives me very even and consistent light. This panel is rather expensive at about $120+. I am looking at a smaller light source that is variable intensity and color and is relatively cheap.https://www.amazon.com/Batteries-32...+photography+light&qid=1771692378&sr=8-4&th=1
A great source for information on camera scanning can be found at: https://www.negativelabpro.com/

 

[John Wiegerink]

Are you very sure? On the Epson TPU lids I'm familiar with, the light source in the lid is a traveling bar that 'walks' in sync with the sensor.

I know the newer Epson scanners have that, but I thought the older line didn't. My 2450 is at my cottage so I can't check it. I do have the head/cover off an old HP that I know is just a non-moving light source and might try that. Just got to find it in the junk room somewhere. Like I said, I don't need this for 100% professional quality scans since I have the Nikon 8000 and Epson V850 already. I just want something that I can leave setup, flip a switch, mount the camera and get good quick results. Minimum fuss and muss! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

 

[koraks]

My 4990 is certainly not newer (20+ years now) and it also has the sync-moving bar. I've never owned a 2450 so I'm not sure, but so far all Epsons I've seen use the same conceptual design.

Either way, if it's a flat-field light source, you're in business. If it's a traveling bar, then you'd need to add diffusion + distance to be able to use it. Or simply use one of the many other options out there. This can be as simple as a $10 LED tracing pad with an extra milky plexiglass diffuser put on top.

 

[wiltw]

Why not use an electronic flash to transilluminate a frosted panel...synched to the camera with a PC cord?

 

[MattKing]

Why not use an electronic flash to transilluminate a frosted panel...synched to the camera with a PC cord?

+1

 

[John Wiegerink]

Why not use an electronic flash to transilluminate a frosted panel...synched to the camera with a PC cord?

Yes, I used that setup for slides with a very good dedicated slide copier and once you dial it in it works perfect and is very speedy. Just what I'm looking for, but only for medium format.

 

[John Wiegerink]

My 4990 is certainly not newer (20+ years now) and it also has the sync-moving bar. I've never owned a 2450 so I'm not sure, but so far all Epsons I've seen use the same conceptual design.

Either way, if it's a flat-field light source, you're in business. If it's a traveling bar, then you'd need to add diffusion + distance to be able to use it. Or simply use one of the many other options out there. This can be as simple as a $10 LED tracing pad with an extra milky plexiglass diffuser put on top.

Yes, I know there are some pretty cheap setup that would work. It's just that I wanted to use what I had on hand instead of buying more STUFF. My wife says I have way tooooooo much STUFF right now and she's 100% right.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, I understand. Well, please post back on whether the 2450 light source works! I'm sure it can be made to work, but it may involve hauling some more volume of *something* aboard.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yeah, I understand. Well, please post back on whether the 2450 light source works! I'm sure it can be made to work, but it may involve hauling some more volume of *something* aboard.

I'll do that when I get back to the cottage next week. Unless I can get the HP scanner light source working, which I just found in my JUNK room. Now I know why my wife says I have way to much stuff.

 

[silvergelatin]

Why not use an electronic flash to transilluminate a frosted panel...synched to the camera with a PC cord?

This is the best method I have used so far in terms of results. You need a flash with a modeling light to make it a quick and efficient workflow, though.

The other option I am exploring (in another thread) is a specialized RGB light source like Jack's Scanlight. I cannot yet compare the results to flash, but will soon.

 

[John Wiegerink]

This is the best method I have used so far in terms of results. You need a flash with a modeling light to make it a quick and efficient workflow, though.

The other option I am exploring (in another thread) is a specialized RGB light source like Jack's Scanlight. I cannot yet compare the results to flash, but will soon.

Yes, the thread about Jack's Scanlight is what got me thinking and I didn't want to highjack it with my question. When I used my slide copy setup with flash I had the flash mounted on a swivel and would check the slide too be copied by looking at a bright light source and then swivel the flash back in place.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yes, I used that setup for slides with a very good dedicated slide copier and once you dial it in it works perfect and is very speedy. Just what I'm looking for, but only for medium format.

Since it's small MF, could you use your cell phone LED panel set for just a white background? For larger film, how about a laptop or a desktop monitor's displayed to white?

 

[John Wiegerink]

Since it's small MF, could you use your cell phone LED panel set for just a white background? For larger film, how about a laptop or a desktop monitor's displayed to white?

Alan,
I thought about that route and tried my iPad, but found the light output had a couple of areas where the screen was slightly darker. I actually would like to setup something permanent in the corner of my darkroom so I could just put the camera on it and flip a switch. Or at least keep it as simple as I can, but always ready

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Alan,
I thought about that route and tried my iPad, but found the light output had a couple of areas where the screen was slightly darker. I actually would like to setup something permanent in the corner of my darkroom so I could just put the camera on it and flip a switch. Or at least keep it as simple as I can, but always ready

John, I use Kaiser Slimlite 2453 for reviewing my negatives and slides. It would make a nice light for photocopying I believe, although I haven;lt used it for that. I did examine it;s light output using my NEC monitor light measuring puck as shown below. The output seems pretty consistent. Interestingly, the Kelvin is closer to 5000 with the battery operation than AC. Kaiser has different size lites.

 

[John Wiegerink]

John, I use Kaiser Slimlite 2453 for reviewing my negatives and slides. It would make a nice light for photocopying I believe, although I haven;lt used it for that. I did examine it;s light output using my NEC monitor light measuring puck as shown below. The output seems pretty consistent. Interestingly, the Kelvin is closer to 5000 with the battery operation than AC. Kaiser has different size lites.

View attachment 418855

Thanks Alan, I'll add that to the list. I'm going up to the cottage later this week and will check out the Epson scanner first and then go from there.

 

[koraks]

I did examine it;s light output using my NEC monitor light measuring puck as shown below.

The color temperature is one thing, but more important is variation in light flux (brightness). The minor variations in color temperature wouldn't worry me all too much esp. for quick & dirty scans. variations in brightness would be a problem. It's likely easily remedied by placing a sheet of milky acrylic at some distance from the panel as an additional diffuser.