Camera repair courses in the UK/a plea to any camera repairers!

Twotone · May 2, 2023

Hi folks,

I've drawn a blank and I'm looking for some suggestions/guidance, please can you PM me directly if you can help, I'm very serious about this so I'm happy to talk over the phone.

I'm very conscious that the few remaining camera techs we have are getting to a point where they are deciding to go off and enjoy themselves aka retirement, and it's getting increasingly difficult to maintain and repair my cameras.

I'm also concerned for the future of this industry so want to get involved, I'm looking to make this into a career.

I'm looking to get trained in repairing 35/MF cameras but have drawn a blank!

I'm aware the courses that companies would send their techs on stopped a long time ago. I'm aware there is learncamerarepair.com course materials and service manuals, and I'm aware there are some excellent video series on YouTube showing how to repair various specific issues however I'm looking for a more holistic in-person offering.

I know getting hands on with cameras can't be underestimated however I need some guidance from an experienced tech and given the opportunity to learn the ropes on anything they can show me. I appreciate this can't be taught overnight however I'm willing to commit a substantial amount of my time and funds to getting this support, and assist with any other aspects of their business to enable them to have time to assist me. I'm also happy to commit myself to supporting them longer term if that's something that helps the cause.

I've contacted numerous techs/companies but the answer has been a resounding no, despite there being enough business to go around.

I have a mechanical engineering background from my education, and am passionate about learning.

Please send me a PM if you can help.

Many thanks

cmacd123 · May 2, 2023

1) their is a company in scandiavia who is fixing and selling cameras. they indicated at one time they were taking some apprentices. Not sure if they are full, but might at least have ideas for you. https://kamerastore.com/en-ca

2) there is a fellow in the states who is running an semi online course based on the old National Camera insitute course material. you are expected to find the cameras (which are mostly inexpensive) that NatCam used for their course. you are suposed to follow the manuals and send him the tests which he wants a few dollars to Grade. he is mostly doing this on a non-profit cost recovery basis. https://learncamerarepair.com/

Bill Burk · May 3, 2023

There is a Facebook group adjunct to the website https://www.learncamerarepair.com

It’s called
Learn Camera Repair

I’m not one to speak of best practices but don’t watch YouTube videos of people spraying WD-40 on the mirror mechanism.

And learn to avoid tool marks (or burnish them if you do make a slip).

Another tip, and it’s just common sense… Find a camera model that you like. One that would give you joy if you had one in perfectly working condition… buy up a lot of them. My choice was the Pentax ES-II, I bought about five of them and one was a real dog (the CdS cells were bad) but the next came to life.

p.s. I meant to say that the Facebook group is very helpful.

Europan · May 3, 2023

Twotone said:
I have a mechanical engineering background from my education

Your best and most important asset

I have studied machine engineering some 40 years ago and pulled in the manual profession of polymechanic as it is called in this country when I was 47. The training in montage, démontage or assembly-disassembly I got is very helpful to the work I’m doing now.

Be ascertained that almost any tool that you will need can be bought. Be insured that tenacity will take you further but be advised also that nothing replaces true interest in optics and fine mechanics. If you don’t have that, the dirty, beaten-up cameras in front of you will turn you off sooner or later.

And learn to course.

Twotone · May 3, 2023

cmacd123 said:
1) their is a company in scandiavia who is fixing and selling cameras. they indicated at one time they were taking some apprentices. Not sure if they are full, but might at least have ideas for you. https://kamerastore.com/en-ca

2) there is a fellow in the states who is running an semi online course based on the old National Camera insitute course material. you are expected to find the cameras (which are mostly inexpensive) that NatCam used for their course. you are suposed to follow the manuals and send him the tests which he wants a few dollars to Grade. he is mostly doing this on a non-profit cost recovery basis. https://learncamerarepair.com/

Thanks for this!

I have spoken with Camera Rescue based out of Finland, they have suggested they won't be taking the school/classes forwards any further due to issues with funding (and that they don't want to charge for it!).

I've got the Learn Camera Repair pdf's and various repair manuals, some of which have been sourced from that site too, I wasn't aware of the test marking offer so I'll look into that again! I will say that I do intend to read through the course properly, I'm just finding somewhere to get it printed as I'm already looking at a screen 9 hours a day without adding this into the mix!

Thanks

Twotone · May 3, 2023

Bill Burk said:
There is a Facebook group adjunct to the website https://www.learncamerarepair.com

It’s called
Learn Camera Repair

I’m not one to speak of best practices but don’t watch YouTube videos of people spraying WD-40 on the mirror mechanism.

And learn to avoid tool marks (or burnish them if you do make a slip).

Another tip, and it’s just common sense… Find a camera model that you like. One that would give you joy if you had one in perfectly working condition… buy up a lot of them. My choice was the Pentax ES-II, I bought about five of them and one was a real dog (the CdS cells were bad) but the next came to life.

p.s. I meant to say that the Facebook group is very helpful.

Thanks Bill!

I'm on the Facebook group but haven't yet posted on it. As you say, it's a great resource!

Thanks for the tip ref best practices, I have seen too many of those types of videos you mention, rest assured I intend to do everything properly or I'd rather not do it at all!

I'm currently stocking up on a couple of different camera models so I can start stripping them down etc, it's certainly a great way to learn.

Twotone · May 3, 2023

Europan said:
Your best and most important asset

I have studied machine engineering some 40 years ago and pulled in the manual profession of polymechanic as it is called in this country when I was 47. The training in montage, démontage or assembly-disassembly I got is very helpful to the work I’m doing now.

Be ascertained that almost any tool that you will need can be bought. Be insured that tenacity will take you further but be advised also that nothing replaces true interest in optics and fine mechanics. If you don’t have that, the dirty, beaten-up cameras in front of you will turn you off sooner or later.

And learn to course.

Thank you

The interest is definitely there, my main turn off is not being able to do something properly/not understanding it. I'm hoping this post may result in something however I intend to continue on in my journey by using available resources and doing disassembly/reassembly etc of several cameras to understand them better.

250swb · May 3, 2023

Twotone said:
Thank you

The interest is definitely there, my main turn off is not being able to do something properly/not understanding it. I'm hoping this post may result in something however I intend to continue on in my journey by using available resources and doing disassembly/reassembly etc of several cameras to understand them better.

Let us know where you end up working, because I DON'T want an apprentice fixing my camera

It's a serious point, sooner or later your work is going to go public and if you are working alongside an established camera technician their reputation and customer base will be on the line. Perhaps this is why none of them are willing to take on an apprentice, not to underestimate the time it takes away from repairing cameras and which also affects their customers and reputation for a quick turnaround. Fixing a camera is far more than knowing where the spring goes, or what that lever does, it's about knowing what causes a problem so when the part is fixed it doesn't happen again, and this is often a lifetimes jealously guarded experience.

There are some very, very good camera techs in the UK, and some appalling con-men. Some of the best, like Sover Wong or Malcolm Taylor specialise in one make of camera but would probably know the basics of fixing almost any camera because mechanical principles are often the same or similar. So if I had your ambition and to learn the principles I'd buy up none working cameras on eBay and fix them, and sell them, and take the consequences if they don't work. It concentrates the mind if you have to learn something and then stand by your work. Or maybe even start by 'refreshing' old cameras as many people do who sell on eBay, some specialising in one make. What I mean is, and this is the optimistic point, there are many ways to get into camera repairs without going full on immediately but to ease yourself in with an imaginative idea. I'll give you one example, you often see Pentax Spotmatic's for 'parts or repair' and its nearly always stuck shutter or stuck mirror, and one is the consequence of the other, and it's usually the same simple fix to the problem. As soon as you've fixed that on a Pentax you'll see similar levers and springs on a Nikon, and so on. Take advantage of doing simple jobs that would baffle most people and earn some money from it, all the while gradually increasing your knowledge. It's not a crash course like an apprenticeship, but it may fill the desire in another way.

Twotone · May 3, 2023

250swb said:
Let us know where you end up working, because I DON'T want an apprentice fixing my camera

It's a serious point, sooner or later your work is going to go public and if you are working alongside an established camera technician their reputation and customer base will be on the line. Perhaps this is why none of them are willing to take on an apprentice, not to underestimate the time it takes away from repairing cameras and which also affects their customers and reputation for a quick turnaround. Fixing a camera is far more than knowing where the spring goes, or what that lever does, it's about knowing what causes a problem so when the part is fixed it doesn't happen again, and this is often a lifetimes jealously guarded experience.

There are some very, very good camera techs in the UK, and some appalling con-men. Some of the best, like Sover Wong or Malcolm Taylor specialise in one make of camera but would probably know the basics of fixing almost any camera because mechanical principles are often the same or similar. So if I had your ambition and to learn the principles I'd buy up none working cameras on eBay and fix them, and sell them, and take the consequences if they don't work. It concentrates the mind if you have to learn something and then stand by your work. Or maybe even start by 'refreshing' old cameras as many people do who sell on eBay, some specialising in one make. What I mean is, and this is the optimistic point, there are many ways to get into camera repairs without going full on immediately but to ease yourself in with an imaginative idea. I'll give you one example, you often see Pentax Spotmatic's for 'parts or repair' and its nearly always stuck shutter or stuck mirror, and one is the consequence of the other, and it's usually the same simple fix to the problem. As soon as you've fixed that on a Pentax you'll see similar levers and springs on a Nikon, and so on. Take advantage of doing simple jobs that would baffle most people and earn some money from it, all the while gradually increasing your knowledge. It's not a crash course like an apprenticeship, but it may fill the desire in another way.

Thank you for this!

Absolutely agree, it's the knowledge of why things happen and rather than just understanding how things slot together!

Most of the pushback from techs I've encountered is around them not having an interest in doing it or not seeing what's in it for them (I've offered to pay handsomely, above daily rates etc), it's a sad state of affairs.

I've already started stocking up on a few different models of cameras with a view to do as you say, and learn how to fix the more common issues, as well as the process of undertaking a CLA correctly!

I'm not expecting to have any current/ex-techs offer their services to me hence trying to cover all avenues, so I'll certainly proceed as you suggest and take it from there.

Thanks

BrianShaw · May 3, 2023

One possible option is to become the world’s foremost expert on the Canon AE-1. There are a gazillion of them out there and most are affected by the characteristic squeak. If you conquer that problem and apply a bit of clever marketing to work up a fan frenzy fad… you could have an empire built on a currently under appreciated camera!

Twotone · May 3, 2023

BrianShaw said:
One possible option is to become the world’s foremost expert on the Canon AE-1. There are a gazillion of them out there and most are affected by the characteristic squeak. If you conquer that problem and apply a bit of clever marketing to work up a fan frenzy fad… you could have an empire built on a currently under appreciated camera!

The Squeak-Master General! I can see my name in lights already

4season · May 3, 2023

Even if I resided in your area, I wonder how effective a teacher I'd be. Basics such as how much force to apply when removing a fastener might not be so hard, but being a repair generalist as I am, is kind of tricky because I'm always having to learn things for the very first time: The insides of a Pentax MZ/ZX-series SLR look very different from those of a Nikon F, and a leaf shutter is yet another can 'o worms. I've spent a lot of time just staring at the innards of stuff before doing deeper dives, in order to better understand what I'm seeing. What may look overwhelmingly complex at first glance, gradually reveals itself as a series of sub-assemblies, and sometimes I experience an "aha" moment where it all makes sense, even Minolta SRT cables and pulleys.

Some of the more helpful videos that I've encountered were from Richard Haw and "ICTcamera" (Hasselblad Disassembly Part 1-4). But I avoid using sharpened needle nose pliers as spanner wrenches, and pliers + rubber sheet in place of a flexiclamp, because I'm not that ace who can do so without leaving any marks.

Arthurwg · May 3, 2023

I should think this would be a great career for the right person. Looks like lots of business down the road. One could also develop a skill in 3-D printing of replacement parts.

Twotone · May 3, 2023

4season said:
Even if I resided in your area, I wonder how effective a teacher I'd be. Basics such as how much force to apply when removing a fastener might not be so hard, but being a repair generalist as I am, is kind of tricky because I'm always having to learn things for the very first time: The insides of a Pentax MZ/ZX-series SLR look very different from those of a Nikon F, and a leaf shutter is yet another can 'o worms. I've spent a lot of time just staring at the innards of stuff before doing deeper dives, in order to better understand what I'm seeing. What may look overwhelmingly complex at first glance, gradually reveals itself as a series of sub-assemblies, and sometimes I experience an "aha" moment where it all makes sense, even Minolta SRT cables and pulleys.

Some of the more helpful videos that I've encountered were from Richard Haw and "ICTcamera" (Hasselblad Disassembly Part 1-4). But I avoid using sharpened needle nose pliers as spanner wrenches, and pliers + rubber sheet in place of a flexiclamp, because I'm not that ace who can do so without leaving any marks.

Thanks - I agree that some things are hard to teach. I'm hoping those aha moments will continue to come as I get more into the complicated bits.

I'll have a look at the suggested videos, as a Hasselblad owner, part of my motivation for this vocation is to get to grips with working on mine down the line! I have an A12 film back I'm going to be undertaking a strip and CLA of this weekend.

I've been buying various tools over the last few months including lens spanner wrenches etc from Japan Hobby Tool, however I'm always happy to take took recommendations!

I'm also in the process of buying a shutter tester.

Twotone · May 3, 2023

Arthurwg said:
I should think this would be a great career for the right person. Looks like lots of business down the road. One could also develop a skill in 3-D printing of replacement parts.

Thanks, my thoughts too!

I've got a close friend who is a 3d printing guru however I'm hoping to get setup with one later this year so I can start printing my own bits rather than hassling him all the time.

Dan Daniel · May 3, 2023

A few comments-

Be careful investing in your own 3-d printer. Most small units do not have high resolution, and use materials that might not hold up well in use. Think about focusing on quality 3-d files and finding 3-d printing firms to work with. Pick their brains on software, file formats and needs, and tolerances and materials and then let the people who are devoted to the technology take care of it. Years ago I worked with precision metal etching, and in conversation with the owner learned that he had developed his own software in reaction to production problems that could clear up file errors in 30 seconds. It would have taken me hours to find and clean up these errors.

Hasselblads, best as I know, have a variety of specialty tools, mainly for body alignment, lens flange alignment, etc. Look over Bill Rogers' instagram to see this kind of tooling at work with Mamiyas- https://www.instagram.com/billrogerscamera/

4season makes a good point- every camera is different. Then again, you'll find the same basic mechanisms at work again and again. Most companies do not reinvent the wheel for each camera. They change the packaging, position, etc. But e.g. the escapement on a focal plane shutter is often remarkably similar to the escapement on a leaf shutter. As you get going, find these basic principles at work and learn to recognize them.

Keep a digital camera on the bench and take photos again and again, especially the first time you go into a camera model. And take lots of photos, rotating the object and shooting a series. You won't even know what is important in many ways the first time in. A spring might only be seen in the background from a certain angle you could not have expected, etc.

4season · May 3, 2023

I can vouch for Japan Hobby Tool "vacuum pads" which have let me remove many a lens beauty ring or SLR wind-crank screws without leaving any marks. Any time I can get away with using these versus a spanner or flexiclamp, I'll do so.

When working on Japanese cameras, why not use proper JIS screwdrivers, which fit perfectly? Especially when a good quality set of tools by Vessel can be had for very little money.

4season · May 3, 2023

Oh, and always consider the possibility of devising tools and techniques which did not exist when the camera service manuals were written: For instance, a free slo-motion video app on my phone has proven very handy for diagnosing problems with focal plane shutters, as I can actually see the shutter capping or bouncing. Some digital cameras may be even better, offering frame rates in the 900 frames/sec range. The old Nikon One mirrorless cameras offer just such a feature. The resolution isn't much, but it doesn't need to be for this application.

Mark J · May 3, 2023

You sound just like the sort of person who we are always struggling to recruit (and retain) for development work and manufacturing engineering work in our optical company in North Wales. I feel a bit torn inside to mention this though, because the UK needs more young , new, camera repairers to be trained !

ic-racer · May 3, 2023

If just starting out I can recommend the plans on GitHub for this shutter and exposure tester. Very well designed. Pretty easy to build (compared to assembling a camera) if one can find all the parts on the internet.

Keeping the equipment working is part of film photography for me.

I once toured a submarine and was impressed that there was a workshop with lathe and drill press etc. right in the engine room. I though how fitting, so I have a repair bench right in my darkroom to keep all the darkroom equipment and cameras working.

ic-racer · May 3, 2023

4season said:
Oh, and always consider the possibility of devising tools and techniques which did not exist when the camera service manuals were written

Yes! I also hope that as the electronic Nikon (and other) cameras get older people will reverse-engineer the software packages and interface modules for these cameras.

Twotone · May 4, 2023

Dan Daniel said:
A few comments-

Be careful investing in your own 3-d printer. Most small units do not have high resolution, and use materials that might not hold up well in use. Think about focusing on quality 3-d files and finding 3-d printing firms to work with. Pick their brains on software, file formats and needs, and tolerances and materials and then let the people who are devoted to the technology take care of it. Years ago I worked with precision metal etching, and in conversation with the owner learned that he had developed his own software in reaction to production problems that could clear up file errors in 30 seconds. It would have taken me hours to find and clean up these errors.

Hasselblads, best as I know, have a variety of specialty tools, mainly for body alignment, lens flange alignment, etc. Look over Bill Rogers' instagram to see this kind of tooling at work with Mamiyas- https://www.instagram.com/billrogerscamera/

4season makes a good point- every camera is different. Then again, you'll find the same basic mechanisms at work again and again. Most companies do not reinvent the wheel for each camera. They change the packaging, position, etc. But e.g. the escapement on a focal plane shutter is often remarkably similar to the escapement on a leaf shutter. As you get going, find these basic principles at work and learn to recognize them.

Keep a digital camera on the bench and take photos again and again, especially the first time you go into a camera model. And take lots of photos, rotating the object and shooting a series. You won't even know what is important in many ways the first time in. A spring might only be seen in the background from a certain angle you could not have expected, etc.

Thank you for the great tips, will certainly take those on board!

I'm a big fan of Bill's work, his Instagram is really interesting to follow if you don't already, some nice up close shots of everything he does!

Also, excellent idea ref. Multiple photos from different angles, I'll certainly do that!

Twotone · May 4, 2023

4season said:
I can vouch for Japan Hobby Tool "vacuum pads" which have let me remove many a lens beauty ring or SLR wind-crank screws without leaving any marks. Any time I can get away with using these versus a spanner or flexiclamp, I'll do so.

When working on Japanese cameras, why not use proper JIS screwdrivers, which fit perfectly? Especially when a good quality set of tools by Vessel can be had for very little money.

Thank you!

I bought some of these recently to remove the front lens element of a Rolleicord I bought with a stuck shutter, they are great quality.

At the same time I also bought a JIS and a 'normal' set of precision screwdrivers from Vessel, I'm also very much of the view that you should use the right tool for the job!

Twotone · May 4, 2023

Mark J said:
You sound just like the sort of person who we are always struggling to recruit (and retain) for development work and manufacturing engineering work in our optical company in North Wales. I feel a bit torn inside to mention this though, because the UK needs more young , new, camera repairers to be trained !

Thanks! The heart wants what the heart wants

Twotone · May 4, 2023

ic-racer said:
If just starting out I can recommend the plans on GitHub for this shutter and exposure tester. Very well designed. Pretty easy to build (compared to assembling a camera) if one can find all the parts on the internet.

Keeping the equipment working is part of film photography for me.

I once toured a submarine and was impressed that there was a workshop with lathe and drill press etc. right in the engine room. I though how fitting, so I have a repair bench right in my darkroom to keep all the darkroom equipment and cameras working.

View attachment 337625 View attachment 337626

Thanks for this suggestion, I had considered going down this route, I may still do it, and perhaps is a nice way to start!
Alternatively, outside of finding a reasonably priced 'original' I've also looked at the options from the seller in Romania who I believe Using similar sensors etc. Thanks for the reminder of this!

Camera repair courses in the UK/a plea to any camera repairers!

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