Camera for contact printing

[matti]

A couple of years now I have been curious about LF and contact printing. And to maybe explore alternative processes in the future. I am thinking something really cheap/old at 5x7 or 8x10 or 13x18 cm or 18x24 cm.

During the years I have been thinking about this I have tried to find good contact prints to see what they look like, but I haven't really found anything except really old, faded and dirty ones. But I have read that they could look a bit different than enlargements.

I like to explore new techniques in photography and I think it would be really fun to work slow with an LF-camera compared to the snapshots I take with my Leica or Mamiya M645. As my enlarger doesn't take anything larger than 6x7, enlarging is not something I plan to do in LF. (I also think my Mamiya M645 can handle the sizes of enlargements I do.)

I will do landscape and portraits so I don't think I need major camera movements. I have seen quite a lot of really old "travel cameras" in 13x18 cm or 18x24 cm and also Russian fk-cameras and also old Kodak cameras. This would only cost me about $200. I suppose some of them might need to be tweaked a bit to take film instead of glass plates.

I suppose this might not be the easiest way to enter into LF. But is this possible? If not, I suppose I would buy a pinhole camera with film back for the same amount of money to at least explore the contact printing part.

I would be grateful for any suggestions, even if you try to convince me to stay away from the old and cheap but big cameras .

/matti

 

[Bromo33333]

I suppose this might not be the easiest way to enter into LF. But is this possible? If not, I suppose I would buy a pinhole camera with film back for the same amount of money to at least explore the contact printing part.

I would be grateful for any suggestions, even if you try to convince me to stay away from the old and cheap but big cameras

I would rent a 8x10 or 4x5 and give it a try. I don't think a pinhole camera would give satisfying results since the beauty of most well made contact prints is, in my opinion, the tack-sharp result.

That way you will be really sure you want to take the plunge before you do - and your GAS attack money might be saved ... ?

Plate cameras are attractive, but certainly haven't been maintained. You can get an inexpensive used LF format kit for a lot less than what it would take (including pain and suffering) to get a plate camera converted to a modern format.

 

[Nick Zentena]

I don't know what you can get in Stockholm but plenty of quite use able 5x7 cameras out there. They tend to be heavier then some of the modern field cameras. They likely don't go super wide. They may need a bit of tender love. But if in reasonable condition they all work.

If it was me I'd stick to something designed to take film holders. 5x7 cameras are common enough and can be cheap enough that I don't see why you'd go with something that takes plates.

 

[c6h6o3]

I don't know what you can get in Stockholm but plenty of quite use able 5x7 cameras out there. They tend to be heavier then some of the modern field cameras. They likely don't go super wide. They may need a bit of tender love. But if in reasonable condition they all work.

If it was me I'd stick to something designed to take film holders. 5x7 cameras are common enough and can be cheap enough that I don't see why you'd go with something that takes plates.

Don't get any oddball size for which you cannot buy film. You don't want to have to cut it. Many films (most Kodak sheet films, for example) are not available in 5x7.

 

[Ole]

I use Reisekameras - 13x18, 18x24, 24x30 and 30x40cm. None of them are "converted" to modern film holders, I use sheet film in the plate holders.

For the two smallest sizes, this is easy: There are film sheaths available where you just slip the film into a thin metal holder which then is put in the holder just like a plate. The two larger ones I use with the film lightly "glued" to a glass plate.

Most of the German Reisekameras you can find on German ebay have been well maintained, at least two of mine seem to have been in frequent use until very recently.

One of the cameras (the 18x24cm one) is what was called "Englische Type", with a folding front standard. The others are classic "tailboard" Reisekameras. These are almost perfectly suited for very wide lenses, as the front movements (rise/fall and swing) are indepentend on the bellows. In fact the 24x30cm camera can focus a 40mm lens at infinity! This may seem ridiculous, but at least it allows full movements with a 65mm lens and 9x12cm film (through format reducing adapters in the plate holder).

As for 13x18, be aware that there are two fairly similar types of these: The best type has a continuous rack&pinion track along the bed, the other has "keyholes" where the back is slotted in in fixed positions. These also have rack&pinion focussing, but the back will be less stable with this model.

The selection of film in 13x18 is better than 5x7", 18x24 poorer, and 24x30 / 30x40 is virtually nonexistent.

 

[Jerevan]

Matti,

it's entirely possible! I've used (and still use) a 13x18 travel camera. It works okay, if you have the patience. I have only used it inside the house, with the plate holders I got with it. It had a few light leaks in the bellows which I think I was able to fix well enough for it to work.

The low-cost route means some time getting things in shape and spending some sheets of film to figure out the best way of using the camera. You can get better things, but then you have to pay a little more.

But if you can, I'd advise trying to find a camera that can take filmholders. Some of the older cameras can be challenging to find holders for. If you get a plate camera, get a few holders with it.

www.schoenherrsfoto.se has often a few cameras for sale on their homepage. You're living in Stockholm, so I think the best thing would be just to drop by there and have a look. They have more stuff in the store than on their homepage. Another good bet is www.wibergsfoto.se. They also have a bit of stuff lurking in the corners...

 

[matti]

Thanks for the info, everyone.

It sounds like a non permanent spray on glue would solve a lot of issues with plate cameras.
I searched and found 18x24cm film at least at Fotoimpex in Germany. If that size is going to be difficult to find, what about cutting 8x10 in film? Is it difficult if using a paper cutter?
Is there a reason not to buy one of those Russian fkd-cameras in 18x24 cm format? (Except maybe that they don't have a shutter, but I think I can live with that for a while.) It would be awsome to be able to make contact prints in that format.

/matti

 

[Ole]

I have a Russian FKD-type 30x40cm camera...

If the build quality of that is typical, I would recommend a "real antique" instead. If you can find a good one with good bellows and a good supply of plate holders, of course - never buy a plate camera without holders!

Very few plate (or LF) cameras have shutters. The FKD's usually come with a shutterless lens, sometimes the antiques come with lenses in shutter. Mounting a different lens (with shutter) is a matter of ten minutes with a screwdriver - although you may sometimes have to adjust the hole in the lens board.

 

[Justin Cormack]

I have a nineteenth ventury plate cameraas my first large format camera for contact printing. It is kind of limiting not having a shutter as its hard to get slow enough films for daylight (though I might make a filter holder). its fun though, and anything you get to do large format dev and contact printing, alt processes etc is just as applicable to another camera. I am going to get a modern camera at some point and use the victorian the way it was intended, making my own plates, rather than trying to retrofit with shutter, modern lenses etc.

I would say if you like photographic history, dont pay too much, and an old camera doesnt need too much (or any) work, go for it.

 

[matti]

Ok, thanks! I think I will try to find an old one with good bellows and at least a couple of double plate holders then.

Now if I only can decide on 13x18 vs 18x24. It would probably be a wise thing to go with the smaller one. But then again, nobody would call this route in photography wise anyway, so I think I'm on my own...

/matti

 

[Bromo33333]

Ok, thanks! I think I will try to find an old one with good bellows and at least a couple of double plate holders then.

Now if I only can decide on 13x18 vs 18x24. It would probably be a wise thing to go with the smaller one. But then again, nobody would call this route in photography wise anyway, so I think I'm on my own...

/matti

You still might want to consider getting a more modern camera that accept a regular film holder ... this sounds like a real project - and the question you need to be sure of is if you want a project or a camera?

 

[matti]

Of course you are right. And a more modern camera would of course be great. (Any pointers in that direction would be welcome!) The problem is that I can not put more than about $300 into this, including a normal lens and a couple of film holders. And it must be 5x7 or larger. And if I hire something proffessional, I will spend half the money on that trial pretty quickly.

So, like my Fed2 took me into range finder cameras and my Iskra folder tought me the basics of MF, I need to find something cheap to get me into LF sized for contact printing, while my steam last. And it sounds like the Reisekamera-way might be possible.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to put some spray on glue in the normal film holders as well, to keep the film flat .

/matti

You still might want to consider getting a more modern camera that accept a regular film holder ... this sounds like a real project - and the question you need to be sure of is if you want a project or a camera?

 

[Ole]

If you decide on a Russian one, I will recommmend that you buy it from blyatnikov. I'm sure there are lots of other reliable sellers out there, but I have personal experience with this one.

At the moment he's only got two 18x24's - one FK, and one "Ideal". The Ideal is probably a German camera of "English type", and indeed looks very, very similar to mine. I've finally got two more plate holders for it after pestering everyone on German ebay for exact measurements for two years!

There's a 13x18 camera there too, but it looks more like "a very interesting project" than a good starter camera

 

[matti]

Oops! I bought that big Russian I suppose it will give me some interesting times. I had eyed it for a while. But now I can blame you, Ole

It might be interesting to try out that film as well...

So, how many plate holders is ennough?

/matti

 

[Jerevan]

So, how many plate holders is ennough?

/matti

As many as you can get! Seriously, two or three will do fine if you are close to home. With the glass in them, they get pretty heavy. Did you buy the 18x24?

 

[Ole]

I've now got four 18x24 holders, and have on occasion wanted more. I have five 13x18 plate holders, which is enough. For the 24x30 camera I have three holders, which together weigh as much as the camera. That's enough.

The really big Russian (30x40) has one plate holder, which is a logistical nightmare: Dragging the camera out to take a picture is a major operation, so I would like to take more than two pictures when I do. And with that size, a darkroom is the only way to load and unload holders (the book-style 18x24 holders are easy to do in a changing bag, far easier than "regular" holders)!

Matti, in my search for 18x24 holders to fit my camera I bought some Russian ones. You can have them, since they won't fit my camera. I was planning to rebuild the back to fit those holders, since they're readily available, but then I found two more holders that were a perfect fit.

 

[matti]

Yeah, Jerevan, I did buy the 18x24 I don't really have an idea of how big this camera might be. But I suppose I will start with some portrait/still life settings in the garden and then maybe take it for a ride in the car.

I am actually very excited about this. But I suppose it might need some fixing up, even though the seller said the bellows were perfect.

Ole! I'd be greatful to take your offer. I will try out the camera first so I can get it going.

Now I need some smaller dishes, some more Pyrocat and a box of Adox CHS100 in 18x24 from Fotoimpex. This is going to be fun!

/matti

 

[Ole]

.But I suppose it might need some fixing up, even though the seller said the bellows were perfect.

If the seller was Sergei, you can believe him.

Just let me know when you want the extra holders!

 

[matti]

The film that comes with this camera - is it worth a try?

I will get 100 sheets of "Tasma"-film (if my cyrillic transcription is correct) with the camera. From the picture it seems like it can be from 1989. Is it worthwile to try this film out? Or is it a waste of time?

Can anyone decode what ГОСТ (GOST=ISO) this film is supposed to have form the label on the enclosed photo? Well if it is worthwile to try this film out I suppose I might test it at 12, 25, 50 and 100... But it would be interesting to have a starting point.

/matti

 

[Jim Noel]

I have a friend with one large format camera - an 8x10 pinhole. SHe makes absolutely wonderful images, and now has picked up an 8x10 enlarger so she can print them 16x20. They are beautiful.

Did she start out with these successes, of course not. But she did have enough early ones to keep her going, There is no better way to learn than to have one camera and one lens, in this case a pinhole, and use it until you know exactly what it will do.

Don't give up on the pinhole idea.

 

[Ole]

I've used the Tasma film I got with the 30x40cm camera at ISO 12-ish. It seems to work.

 

[matti]

Sounds great! That would also take care of the problem with sub second exposures. What developer did you use? Maybe Pyrocat-HD at about 10 min would be an OK starting point?

/matti

 

[Ole]

I've only tried two so far - Rodinal and Ansco-130 paper developer. The film is a "technical" film, which easily gets too high contrast. Treating it as photo paper has worked best for me. I haven't really used much of it yet, as I find the big beast too heavy to carry far.

BTW: When you open the pack of film, there will be two paper-wrapped packages inside. When you open one of these by laying it flat and just folding back the paper, the emulsion side is up. There are no notches.

Just thought I'd mention it...

 

[matti]

Hi Ole. I don't follow you here. When you say Rodinal I think about like 1:100 or more, that could produce less contrast. But a paper developer. like the Ansco 130, wouldn't it procuce more contrast? Are you talking about creating negatives for alternative processes, ädelförfarande, that are supposed to have a higher contrast?

/matti

I've only tried two so far - Rodinal and Ansco-130 paper developer. The film is a "technical" film, which easily gets too high contrast. Treating it as photo paper has worked best for me. I haven't really used much of it yet, as I find the big beast too heavy to carry far.

BTW: When you open the pack of film, there will be two paper-wrapped packages inside. When you open one of these by laying it flat and just folding back the paper, the emulsion side is up. There are no notches.

Just thought I'd mention it...

 

[Ole]

Matti, it's all about timing. The film (mine, at least) is orthochromatic, so just take it out of the developer when it "looks right". It takes a little practice and you'll get some unprintable negatives until you learn how it's supposed to look...

I just found some data on Tasma's site - http://www.tasma.ru/product.php?product=%D4%EE%F2%EE%F2%E5%F5%ED%E8%F7%E5%F1%EA%E0/%D4%D2-41%CF.html

We need a Russian here!