Camera CLA & Repair: What oil to use?

luke_h

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Having purchased a bum Kodak Retina IIc last week, I want to fix the cocking rack on the camera myself since I'm pretty sure I can. I want to clean and lubricate the internal workings while I'm in there doing that. At the same time, I want to disassemble the shutter enough to clean and relube it as well.

Having never actually taken the time to relubricate these old cameras, I have no idea what oils to use. What are some suggestions for brands, weights, types?

I assume the oil for the wind gears would be thicker than whatever will lubricate the shutter mechanism.

Thanks for any info!
 

Nicholas Lindan

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Nye clock and instrument oils: http://www.nyelubricants.com/ Available at places that sell watch repair supplies and at Dead Link Removed

DO NOT USE: WD-40, LPS-25, 3-in-1, Sewing machine oil, "houshold" oil, or _anything_ with graphite, teflon or molybdenum. Nothing that says 'new', 'miracle' or 'as seen on TV'.

In a pinch automotive engine oil works very well for all but the finest of mechanisms - and then Automatic Transmission Fluid can be used.

Unless you are going to run a few hundred rolls/year through the camera you will be better off with as _little_ lube as possible. If a mechanism - shutter, timer, etc. - will run dry then run it dry.
 
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luke_h

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Thanks for the info. I have several types of automotive oil, transmission fluid, and marvel mystery oil at my disposal. I'll go the dry route I think.
 

John Koehrer

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In the past I've found the traditional lube to work just fine.
The Nye lube mentioned in the above post are the most useful. Watch oil has a viscosity much like water & is crystal clear. If you take a look at the Micro-tools catalog they offer some watch oilers that allow you to pick up a miniscule drop at a time. allowing the drop to transfer to each end of the gear shaft is all it takes. You can use the eye a sewing needle also.
You can run the shutter dry but I'd think you would end up with erratic speeds.
On surfaces like the speed setting cam "dry moly"(micro-tools) applied with a small piece of Q-tip works very well.
Grease is generally not used in shutters, but most commonly in helical focusing & zoom lens setups.
Marvel, Three in one & other household automotive lube will just crap everything up.
 

Nicholas Lindan

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John Koehrer said:
You can run the shutter dry but I'd think you would end up with erratic speeds.
Click to expand...

It depends on what the camera is to be used for.

I have many I use once a year (once a decade?) and keeping them dry works a lot better having them gunk up. I am sure the shutter doesn't run as well as it could/should but it is good enough for a nostalgia rush. A wise engineering saying is "If you fix anything long enough you will break it". I don't think I can take a shutter apart more than 4 times - the screws can only be tightened so many times before the threads strip and the springs eventually sproing into a parallel universe.

The old Kodak "Ball Bearing Shutters" were designed to run dry - though the speed setting lever has no discernable effect on the shutter speed and it might if a drop of oil were added.

A Compur shutter (or anything else, for that matter) in regular use should certainly be well lubricated as per the factory (or better).

If the camera is doing (mostly) museum duty then I would leave it bone dry.
 

ricksplace

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A drop of oil is WAY too much. As John Kroeher said, a micro-drop is needed. A sewing needle works well as does a plain pin. Dip the pin into the oil, make sure there is no blob of oil on the end, and touch it to the shaft of the gear. The ultra-fine oil will run down the shaft and lubricate the gear. After you have treated all the spots you think you should, run the shutter through all the speeds several times. Let it sit for a few days, then cycle the shuuter through all the speeds several times again. Don't add any more oil.
 
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luke_h

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I would like to NOT say museum duty, but that's usually the fact of life when I have so many other cameras sitting around the house. This shutter currently seemed to only be firing at one speed (looked like about 1/125th) and bulb mode. Other than that, the slow speed settings all fired off at that too-fast speed.

I'm new to disassembling a compur syncrho shutter, but have some instructions in hand. I've been quoted at around 100 dollars + the cost of the cocking rack, so I figure I'll give it a go on my own. So far, I've only ever torn down Argus C4 cameras at the shutter level. This will be a good move into something more complex. I probably won't be pulling out shutter leaves or anything of that sort. Just cleaning the springs and levers with lighter fluid.
 

John Koehrer

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Quoted $100? Seems high.
Have you checked with Paul Ebel or Flutot's/ I don't think either would be that high and both are regarded well by members here.
 

NB23

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I’m bringing this thread out from the dead... Someone recomended automotive automatic transmission oil for compur shutters instead of watch oil.

Is this comon practice?
 

shutterfinger

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If your shutter has an automatic transmission or other hydraulic components in it then use transmission fluid otherwise use the watch oil.
I use TriFlow which has teflon in it and shutters that I serviced 15 years ago still function as they did when the servicing was finished.
I would never use motor oil or transmission fluid in a camera no will I use whatever the author of post 2 was on when they made that post.

Ilex is the only brand of shutters that the factory states the shutter is designed to run dry, Compur, Prontor, Wollensak, Copal all have lube instructions. All say to use a trace of oil. A trace is a just detectable sheen of oil. For internal brass bushings on gears or similar I soak a round wooden tooth pick for about 30 seconds, allow to drain for 30 seconds then insert the tooth pick into the shaft opening and turn 2 or 3 turns then install on the shaft in the shutter.
Shutters designed to run dry benefit from oil after years of use. They run smoother and quieter if not a touch faster.
 
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NB23

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Can you tell is which oil exactly you use?

moebius 9010 would be ok?

edit: triflow, ok!

 

mshchem

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CFC-113. Banned solvent. I have a small bottle in the form of Kodak movie film cleaner and lubricant. It also contains heptane. This stuff has fixed 3 shutters, a Hassleblad back, and a Hasselblad 553 ELX camera. I use a eyedropper and use just a few drops, go very slowly. You can make matters worse if you flush grease onto the shutter blades. I also use a few drops of a dry lube.
These old mechanical things just get filthy and gum up. Everything I've tried this on was something I didn't have any money in so I gave it a try.
If I had something important it's going to a pro.
 

Adam Demuth

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Raising this from the dead again - I have a half dozen cameras that need some help, so I plan on carefully destroying the junkers before I move on to painstakingly disabling the nicer ones. I can get tri-flo locally, but it's aerosol. Can I just spray it directly into my cameras???

I'm joking!

I'm worried about, well I don't know. I guess in my head the aerosol has some additional "goodie" in it. Can I squirt a bit of this into a syringe (or other small container) and dispense to a needle eye?
 

BrianShaw

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Some say you can do that. Some even suggested spraying WD-40 into a bowl and sucking off the oil. But why not just buy some liquid oil. Amazon makes that a cinch.
 

awty

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NB23 said:
I’m bringing this thread out from the dead... Someone recomended automotive automatic transmission oil for compur shutters instead of watch oil.

Is this comon practice?
Click to expand...
Automatic fluid is hydraulic oil, some hydraulic oil is ok because it is low in viscosity, but you don't know what else is added to automotive products. eg antifreeze.
 
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blockend

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I use the stuff sold for model railway locomotives. These have tiny moving parts and the oil is applied in a syringe, and can be delivered in 1mm quantities or less.
 

jim10219

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BrianShaw said:
Some say you can do that. Some even suggested spraying WD-40 into a bowl and sucking off the oil. But why not just buy some liquid oil. Amazon makes that a cinch.
Click to expand...
If you do the WD-40 that way, you have to let it sit in the bowl for a few days to weeks for it to separate the oil from the additives. I find it helps to refrigerate it, though it'll make your refrigerator stink. It's actually a fairly decent oil once separated, but it's not as thin as something like clock or watch oil. In some shutters, it'll work great. Especially older shutters. In others, it'll be too thick and slow the shutter down. So I don't recommend it, but I have used it before, many times, with success. I've also had it fail. I recommend Nye watch oil. It's a hair thinner than the clock oil, which means it might not last quite as long, but it's also slightly more forgiving for over oiling. An 8oz. bottle will last you a lifetime, if you don't spill it, contaminate it, or decide to do this for a living.
 

RalphLambrecht

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go to a place that sells sewing machines. The oil used to lubricate sewing machines is ideal for cameras as well.
 

ph

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RalphLambrecht said:
go to a place that sells sewing machines. The oil used to lubricate sewing machines is ideal for cameras as well.
Click to expand...

I happened to read this thread and noticed that it does not differentiate the lubrication victims.

AT least one camera factory warns against oiling their products

Pignons in Switzerland states on page 32 of the model 9d&f Alpa instruction book that the the shutter must never be oiled by the user (presumably with ordinary miineral oil) since the special oil they use cannot tolerate it.("spexzialöl vertragt es nicht" The instructions for later caneras such as the model 10 only states that oiling is unnecessasry since the shutter is designed to run for well over 100 000 releases

p.
 

Craig

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I've used the LaBelle range of oils for model trains and it seems to work well. Perhaps the most important part is not to over oil, same for clocks. Just the tiniest amount is all that is needed.
 
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