Cambo 6x12 vs Horseman 6x12 for Graflock back 4x5

[StoneNYC]

Stone,

It seems to me that you need to choose one option and deal with the consequences. Please don't think that I'm having a go at you by saying this; it just seems to me that you're dithering, waiting for some ray of light to hit you. If it hasn't yet, I doubt that it is still coming!

As for the consequences, what's the worst that can happen? You get, say, a Sinar and it doesn't suit you. Just sell it again, and suffer any financial loss. Or, buy a Chinese one at a cheaper price and do a decent review on it. Again, if it's crap, sell it.

On the other hand, you just might find the right option for you and you're on your way!

I can only reiterate that I have found the Chinese ones easy to use and excellent in their results.

Thanks, the reason for my pause is simply that it took me 6 months to save and find a good deal on a 4x5... so it will take me that long to afford a horseman I think (which is what I've settled on after reading all of this and other things on the net) so I don't want to have to buy something, just to be frustrated with it... I try to be an informed buyer, not a guinea pig

 

[LJH]

PM me if you'd like any photos of the back I have. As I mentioned, it's 6x17, but it should give you an indicative idea of build/design/quality.

 

[mrsmiggins]

If you can find one, an alternative to the Horseman:-
http://www.stevewaltonsblog.com/2013/01/widepan-6x12-roll-film-back.html

/Frank...

 

[StoneNYC]

If you can find one, an alternative to the Horseman:-
http://www.stevewaltonsblog.com/2013/01/widepan-6x12-roll-film-back.html

/Frank...

Frank, Oh I like that back! Or rather I like the review of it.

More importantly now I want that 47mm lens! Haha

Should take John (Jnanian) up on his offer for those bag bellows and get a sweet sweet 14mm (in 35mm terms) equivalent lens haha, always wanted tr canon 14mm lens but who needs it if you can do it with LF . I almost fell off the couch when I read that something like that existed!


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[Dan Fromm]

Stone, since budget is a big problem for you, you'd do well to settle for the good enough, viz., ShenHao/DaYi. The two are identical as in come out of the same machine shop and differ only in their badges, both get good reviews, and good enough means good enough. Don't loose sight of your goal, which is, I think, to shoot 6x12 on roll film, and isn't, I think, to have spiffy gear.

About the Widepan 6x12 roll holder, I didn't mention it because it seems to be out of production and used ones are scarce. To my eye, never having touched one, it looks like a good imitation or simply a rebadged Horseman.

Re w/a lenses, I have a 47/5.6 SA that just barely or almost covers 6x12. On 2x3 it doesn't need a center filter, on 6x12 it does. More expense. If one is your heart's desire, it is one more reason not to splurge on an expensive back.

Re your heart's desire, reconsider. The widest lens that covers 6x12 is -- I could be mistaken -- the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. It needs a center filter too. Very expensive lens, expensive center filter. It sees the same horizontal angle of view on 56x112 as an 11 mm lens sees on 24x36. Continue dreaming and saving your small monetary units.

Re short lenses, what's your 4x5 camera? Not all will focus really short lenses. More expense looms ...

 

[Oren Grad]

Re short lenses, what's your 4x5 camera?

Earlier in the thread he said Toyo 45A. MAC says that the 45AII can be used with lenses as short as 47mm, though at the moment the only recessed board they offer is a 12mm one described as being for lenses 58mm - 75mm.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Oren, thanks for reminding me to reread the thread from the start.

Interesting. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/toyo.html makes me wonder whether the 45a is the right camera for short lens fantasies. As you know, I entertain them m'self, sometimes succumb.

 

[StoneNYC]

Oren, thanks for reminding me to reread the thread from the start.

Interesting. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/toyo.html makes me wonder whether the 45a is the right camera for short lens fantasies. As you know, I entertain them m'self, sometimes succumb.

Thanks, don't worry the wide angle isn't my first purchase as far as lenses go, I still need to figure out the portrait lens I need, not for portraits but for macro work, I feel like the 150mm macro type focal length isn't right for me, I need something different.

I had a family picnic today and shot a group shot and a few portraits and I had fun with the perspective control but also thought there needed to be more compression so I think a longer focal length would be best. I'll do some research.

 

[StoneNYC]

Earlier in the thread he said Toyo 45A. MAC says that the 45AII can be used with lenses as short as 47mm, though at the moment the only recessed board they offer is a 12mm one described as being for lenses 58mm - 75mm.

Reviving this thread...

One comment, I now own a 75mm lens, and a recessed board made by toyo thats 24mm so they do exist directly from the manufacturer.

SECONDLY, I have a conundrum...

I finally bought the back, found one on ebay recently that looks brand new, $450 total paid, and everything seems to work, as I said it looks brand spanking new. Except, I went out today to shoot with it, and after taking 2 exposures (with variation of aperture/shutterspeed) I went to put the dark slide back in... and it wouldn't go....

I ended up having to waste the other 4 images on the roll, and as soon as I got past the film area while winding, the dark slide went in...

So before I go mucking about, has anyone experienced this with their back, and is it just the pressure plate is too tight and if I adjust it, then I'm fine? or what else can I do? I can't seem to figure out why...

 

[EdSawyer]

the darkslide can be finicky on these. Usually it's a combination of it not being put straight in, or also bending it while inserting. Usually takes a few tries if it's being balky but never had it unable to insert at all. that seems strange.

 

[David Nardi]

I own a Cambo 6x12. Had it for at least 8 years. Never had a problem with it and it always worked flawlessly. The ability to swap from 4x5 to 6x12 by merely sliding in the appropriate holder is a great boon to my landscape photography. I also drew the 6x12 guide lines on the GG so it's great to see right away what framing may prove best in various shooting scenarios. It is a touch heavy for my wooden monorail camera so I support the rear standard with an empty prescription bottle.

 

[StoneNYC]

I own a Cambo 6x12. Had it for at least 8 years. Never had a problem with it and it always worked flawlessly. The ability to swap from 4x5 to 6x12 by merely sliding in the appropriate holder is a great boon to my landscape photography. I also drew the 6x12 guide lines on the GG so it's great to see right away what framing may prove best in various shooting scenarios. It is a touch heavy for my wooden monorail camera so I support the rear standard with an empty prescription bottle.

Yeah it is really great, and it even came with a guideline screen even though the Toyota groundglass already has markings on it for 6 x 7 and 6 x 9, so I pretty much can follow where the area is.

Anyway it is really strange, I haven't been able to figure out where I can adjust things and afraid to mess it up I don't really want to damage it further, I really don't mind using sheets for most things, but I would like the option of using PanF+ as well as Velvia50 since neither of those come in sheet form. Also possibly Rollei IR 400 however the instructions to say that it is not okay to load IR film into this back, is a little warning about it, however I think it's honestly doing the dark and then simply close it should be fine?

All this would be awesome if the Darkside would actually go back in... Lol

 

[StoneNYC]

Okay so for anyone who actually comes across this problem, I done some fiddling, it seems that as long as I can put it in at the right bent angle it goes in, but otherwise it must hit something inside, I hear a very distinct "tink" noise that the dark slide is hitting, The Darkside is one of those plastic like dark slides, not the metal ones, not sure what the differences, I have two different backs a 6 x 7 and then the 6 x 12 now, and the designs insider different, the 6 x 7 has a backing plate that is connected to the actual device, the 6 x 12 has a backing plate that actually lifts out of the device, I also noticed that the 6 x 12 has an additional metal silver roller, the first time I put the film over the roller, this time I put it under the roller, and this seems to have made it a little easier to get in however the issue still exists slightly, and I just have to be careful about how I push the dark slide in, the other factors not do this at all no matter which Darkside I use etc.

At least it's usable and I don't have to return it, just wish it function properly from the beginning.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh no ... it's you again, Stone. Oh well ... let's just say that the Horseman holders have an especially good reputation and are relatively common. I sometimes travel with a couple of 6x9 ones. It's really easy to use sheet film, and there are significant advantages to it. But if you're addicted to Pan F, I can understand that; it's fairly unique.

 

[cowanw]

Okay so for anyone who actually comes across this problem, I done some fiddling, it seems that as long as I can put it in at the right bent angle it goes in, but otherwise it must hit something inside, I hear a very distinct "tink" noise that the dark slide is hitting, The Darkside is one of those plastic like dark slides, not the metal ones, not sure what the differences, I have two different backs a 6 x 7 and then the 6 x 12 now, and the designs insider different, the 6 x 7 has a backing plate that is connected to the actual device, the 6 x 12 has a backing plate that actually lifts out of the device, I also noticed that the 6 x 12 has an additional metal silver roller, the first time I put the film over the roller, this time I put it under the roller, and this seems to have made it a little easier to get in however the issue still exists slightly, and I just have to be careful about how I push the dark slide in, the other factors not do this at all no matter which Darkside I use etc.

At least it's usable and I don't have to return it, just wish it function properly from the beginning.

Is it a Cambo you are using? I don't think you actually say.
Here are Cambo's instructions.
http://www.cambo.com/html/downloads/linkedfiles/english/download/item61/c243.pdf
specifically, in n0. 3 "bring it back over the roller"
I wonder if you will be scratching the emulsion, bringing it under the roller.

 

[StoneNYC]

Is it a Cambo you are using? I don't think you actually say.
Here are Cambo's instructions.
http://www.cambo.com/html/downloads/linkedfiles/english/download/item61/c243.pdf
specifically, in n0. 3 "bring it back over the roller"
I wonder if you will be scratching the emulsion, bringing it under the roller.

Thanks, I have these instructions, however these instructions and the display model are not the version that I have, also the "bring it over the roller" is not referring to the right side but the left side after the film has already traveled under the pressure plate, my issue was that there is an additional roller on the right side before the film goes underneath the pressure plate, also if you notice the pressure plate on the right side is attached to the main device, on my version the pressure plate comes out completely and is not attach, it also does not swing upwards the way this one does, in fact you have to place the left side in first and then bring it down on top so it locks in, I believe that my Version is actually the newer model, that was redesigned to keep the film flatter and keep the film from causing issues with the edges getting destroyed. Anyway it's kind of soft, I just have to be really careful about how I insert the Darkside, I actually need to bend it a little bit in order to get over some kind of lip, I'm not sure what it is as I can't see inside the area that's hitting and it only seems to hit with film in and cover closed, but either way I've figured out how to work it.

And yes, it's the Cambo

 

[MattKing]

Yeah it is really great, and it even came with a guideline screen even though the Toyota groundglass already has markings on it for 6 x 7 and 6 x 9, so I pretty much can follow where the area is.

So Stone, does your Toyota ground glass ever start accelerating uncontrollably?

 

[StoneNYC]

So Stone, does your Toyota ground glass ever start accelerating uncontrollably?

HAHA well at least they are both Japanese .... LOL

Siri is not very bright.... or maybe I'm not very bright for using it (her) for dictation...

Gah, my brain jumps all over the place... now I want to know if my ground glass is very bright.... LOL

Seriously, I want to know if the standard Toyo GG is "very bright" I know it's decently bright, but I see mention of "super ultra bright" GG and wonder if I could get "1 or 2 more stops" out of a brighter GG haha