Calcium Sulfite Deposit?

[DJGainer]

I began developing my own b&w earlier this year, beginning with Microdol-X, undiluted (I quickly went to 1:3). But one of the first rolls has what appears to be soap scum on the negative. On page 44 of Anchell and Troop's Film Developing Cookbook they note that this may occur when using a low pH high sulfite developer. In their note, found in the margin, they discuss D-23 and D-25, but I believe this is the problem I have experienced with my roll of negatives developed in Microdol-X. They also recommend the use of a non-swelling stop bath (namely EKC's SB-5, which I have been unable to find anywhere).

Two questions: Has anyone experienced this with undiluted Microdol-X, and if so, can you confirm this remedy or suggest another? And if you recommend this remedy, is it just easier to mix your own non-swelling stop or is there a commercial product? Thanks for any responses.

Dave

 

[nworth]

I don't know if EKC's SB-5 is the same as Kodak's, but it sounds similar. If it is, it will probably not help.

Kodak SB-5 stop bath for motion picture film
Water (50C) 500 ml
Acetic acid (28%) 32 ml
Sodium sulfate (anh) 45 g
or
Sodium sulfate (xtal) 101 g
WTM 1 l
Useful for processing at higher temperatures.

I haven't used Microdol-X is years, but I never had this kind of problem, despite the terrible, hard water in this area. Kodak includes a sequestering agent in its formula that does a good job of preventing deposits. If in doubt, try mixing it with distilled water.

There are two kinds of deposits you can get on film. One is dichroic fog, which happens with high sulfite developers at low pH and with developers that include silver solvents with modern films. It is a fine coating of silver. It looks like an iridescent sheen on the emulsion. That doesn't sound like your problem.

The other problem is a deposit of insoluble crud. Calcium sulfite is a typical culprit, common in hard water areas. The sequestering agent in Microdol-X should take care of this. Another way to get deposits is by not completely dissolving the powder when mixing the developer. I've had this happen several times. When everything is fully dissolved, the developer will be perfectly clear. Any small cloudiness means that there is still undissolved material, and that material tends to deposit on the film. Dissolving the powder can take a lot of time and effort. Using hot water helps. Generally it takes at least five minutes of continuous, vigorous stirring to fully dissolve a liter of developer. Since gallon amounts are what you get now, I would expect to have to stir even more.

On the subject of stop baths, adding a teaspoon of so of sodium citrate to a regular acid stop bath might help sequester stuff and might help prevent stains. I've never tried it. Just a thought.

 

[DJGainer]

Thank you for the response. I cannot remember if I noticed any cloudiness back in March when I developed this roll, but the issue did not occur in any of the other rolls I processed prior or subsequent to this one (I may have just been unlucky with this one). But the question still remains, is there a remedy for this damaged negative, or can I only hope to prevent it in the future?

 

[gainer]

You could try dunking part of it in very weak hydrochloric acid. You can usually find it as muriatic acid at hardware stores. If it's calcium or magnesium it should dissolve in acid. Calcium chloride is quite soluble as is hydrogen sulfite.

I presume you are sure it was not just incomplete fixing.

Are you and I related?

 

[DJGainer]

Pat, I am not sure, but considering the wealth of knowledge you have, I wish! I almost felt guilty using it as my handle. As for incomplete fixing, I used a freshly mixed Kodak Fixer initially and recently I tried to re-fix using the same, believing this would reslove the problem (would it?). I also re-washed with HCA and water, but to no avail. I hope that the acid will work. I really do not want to expose the negatives to more chemicals, but I think the negatives are essentially worthless if unprintable so I am willing to try anything. Thanks for the response.
Dave

 

[gainer]

Every phone book I have seen had at least one Gainer. My ancestors on that side came from Ireland before the American Revolution. There are some who are African style Americans. There is one Patrick Gainer who is or was a member of a native American Tribal Council. My father was a Professor of English Literature and a fine singer and choral director. My sister Miriam Goder got a degree in chemistry and a Master's in music. My brother Mike is a Professor Emeritus of St. Vincent's College where he taught physics and astronomy. Check out his recently published book "Real Astronomy with Small Telescopes" which you can find at Amazon. My brother Tom followed me into NASA and recently retired. My brother Nick was a personel manager for several companies before his retirement.

We have a Gainer family reunion yearly in Philippi, WV.

 

[pnance]

Microdol can't be the only possible source of the contamination. I have used Microdol extensively for years without any scum forming on my negatives. While you didn't mention the other chemicals used in processing your negatives, it is the last ones used that I would look at. (Of course, if you're looking at your negatives after development, before stop and fix and possible hypo clear and/or wetting agent, it could be from the developer. In that case I would wonder how you mixed it, and in what. One would normally use distilled water to mix developers) Many people have complained of soap scum from using Photo-Flo, Photo-Flo is advertised to be mixed 1 part Photo-Flo to 200 parts water (and many suggest 1:400 instead).

I would imagine that its a wetting agent causing the scum, or you water.

 

[DJGainer]

Perhaps it is time for full disclosure. I used Microdol-X undiluted, kodak indicator stop, kodak fixer, kodak hca, water rinse. I did not use Photo-flo. I cannot say how well the Microdol-X was mixed, it was too long ago to remember if it was at all cloudy when I used it. However, I think I understand the only remedy to be the use of a diluted acid, as suggested a hydrochloric acid sounds like it will do. If from the chemicals listed another error is possible, please advise. Thanks to all who responded.

gainer (I am sorry if you are not indeed Pat Gainer as I had assumed), that is fascinating. I wish I knew more about my Gainer family heritage, but I do know the line in America predates the Revolution. And I also know that there was native American blood in the line somewhere. I have been able to uncover history on other names of the family, but Gainer has always been exceedingly difficult to trace. If you have any further information, I as well as others in my family would be interested to hear! Take care.

 

[gainer]

I am one of several Patrick Gainers. My father was one and my first born son is another. I will try to remember to PM you when I learn the date of the next reunion.