C41 Portra 160 Dark brownish base - green tint to scans

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MingMingPhoto

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Hi all. I am wondering if anyone is a photo engineer and can Identify some reasons for this cast happening on this portra 160 I developed for someone. I was using kodak lu devloper, Fuji N2 Bleach 3 and, Kodak RA Fixer.

Is it an issue with chemistry, film keeping etc?

Some examples can be found here (when I try to upload a file it says file is too big)

The first folder is the scans without scanner adjsutments
and the second folder is where I tries teaking the colors a bit
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1n78eyolo6380we/AAD2jNc7CP4ggPP_5eRQ8qLNa?dl=0
 

MattKing

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Those look like cyan casts to me, not green.
Do you have backlit images of the negatives themselves?
 
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MingMingPhoto

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I don't have them rn, but I can get them tomorrow.

Would you mind letting me know what are some probable causes that you might suspect? I know the photo of the negs will help a lot but, I'm curious the places your mind is taking you now
 

MattKing

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I'm not currently processing c-41, but several people here are, and they are more likely to identify processing problems from the appearance of the negatives than I am.
What temperature were you developing at, and how were you maintaining it?
 
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MingMingPhoto

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I'm not currently processing c-41, but several people here are, and they are more likely to identify processing problems from the appearance of the negatives than I am.
What temperature were you developing at, and how were you maintaining it?
38C rotational development. I've processed over 1000 rolls in the last two years but I JUST began playing around with replenishing. So I'm wondering if it's (things I've read on other forums) Devloper Fog, Retained Silver, under bleaching/fixing (though I did run it through fresh bleach and fix again to be safe) or if it could be old film/poorly kept film

wym maintaining it?
 

koraks

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Do you have backlit images of the negatives themselves?
This will be essential.

So I'm wondering if it's (things I've read on other forums) Devloper Fog, Retained Silver, under bleaching/fixing (though I did run it through fresh bleach and fix again to be safe) or if it could be old film/poorly kept film
Might be any or a combination of these. One of your examples that I opened showed rather high contrast, suggesting that insufficient bleaching might be part of the issue, but it's a wild guess, partly based on a post you made in another topic where you mentioned using the same bleach for quite many rolls of film. Old or poorly stored film usually looks different; you'd expect color balance issues, lack of shadow detail etc. in positive scans with poor/bad film.

Determining the causes of this kind of problem is virtually impossible with the kind of scans that you've linked to; you really need to see the film itself, including the edges/edge numbering, and not inverted or white/black-point corrected.
 

mohmad khatab

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Hi all. I am wondering if anyone is a photo engineer and can Identify some reasons for this cast happening on this portra 160 I developed for someone. I was using kodak lu devloper, Fuji N2 Bleach 3 and, Kodak RA Fixer.

Is it an issue with chemistry, film keeping etc?

Some examples can be found here (when I try to upload a file it says file is too big)

The first folder is the scans without scanner adjsutments
and the second folder is where I tries teaking the colors a bit
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1n78eyolo6380we/AAD2jNc7CP4ggPP_5eRQ8qLNa?dl=0

There are several doubts revolving around a number of reasons.
- The first reason from my point of view is the camera used for shooting, I doubt that its light meter only has some of its sensitivity and that appears in most of the distant photos.
- The film, perhaps, was kept in a hot place (regardless of whether it was fresh or not), and perhaps it was also old and did not have any tolerance for any decrease or increase in lighting.

- The thermometer you are using may have some kind of defect, and this has happened to me repeatedly, and now I no longer rely on one thermometer, I must use an electronic one and the other is lupus, I do not rely on electronic only or lupus only, I must rely However, the lupus thermometer is not immune to failure and neither is the electronic thermometer immune to failure and this malfunction can happen when the developer is somewhat old or somewhat worn out.

- Perhaps the developer is a bit old or a bit worn out, while the film is also not at its best.

- Perhaps the temperature of the process was not constant throughout the development period, yes, you were probably sure that the temperature of the developer was 38 degrees, but you may have neglected to check the temperature of the water in the immersion basin (that vessel in which the development tank is placed during the development process so that it is surrounded by with warm water at the same temperature as the developer) and one or more temperatures may have been lost because of this.

- Perhaps there is an increase in development, and I personally suggest a somewhat strange reason, which is the wasted time between emptying the tank from the developer and washing the film. Sometimes this time is rather long and sometimes we slow down in speeding towards the faucet and sometimes we do not notice that it It is worthwhile to wash the film immediately without wasting any time so that the film gets rid of the developer remaining on the surface of the emulsion quickly, as this developer is still interacting with the emulsion and is still developing, but at a lower rate of course.

- Also, I always recommend the step of stopping the reaction with any mild acidic solution (food vinegar 2% with water) even if it is for half a minute, trust me, this step will have some good effect, I pour the stopping solution on the film after washing it quickly and come back I empty the stop solution at the same moment immediately and go back and re-wash the film with tap water several times, no less than 10 times and maybe 20 until I make sure that the film is completely rid of all traces of the developer and all traces of the stop solution.
At that moment, I can open the tank with a clear conscience and mind and bleach the film in the light of the room and also do the fixing in the light of the room.

Sometimes some causes and bugs are intertwined together and unite to produce a problem, so it is difficult for you to be able to clarify your hand on the real reason for the occurrence of that problem.
This is a sample of my photos using chemistry that was made by hand from scratch and used expired film since 2014.
 

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foc

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As has been mentioned, a look at the negative strip would help a lot.
Having looked at your link, the images appear to have the look of retained silver. This is caused by insufficient bleaching.
You could try mixing new bleach and rebleaching and fixing and wash and see does that help.
 

Mr Bill

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Would you mind letting me know what are some probable causes that you might suspect? I know the photo of the negs will help a lot but, I'm curious the places your mind is taking you now

Hi, obviously I'm not Matt, but I presume you won't mind other opinions. To start with let me say that you haven't really supplied enough info to do good troubleshooting. So I'm gonna concentrate on just one thing - the fact that your title refers to a "dark brownish base."

Ok, the possible reasons why the base might be too dark are mainly: 1) bad bleach or fix, which might leave silver in the film (normally the silver will all be removed). 2) excess development. Or 3) "fogged" (or otherwise damaged) film.

I note that you already tried rebleaching and refixing, also noted by foc, which is a good thing to try. But... call me skeptical as I still question whether your chems are "good." Two things you might try for confirmation: if your scanner has an IR channel (for dust detection) see if the IR channel sees an image. It should not. If IR DOES see an image this means that there is retained silver. Or, lacking an IR channel, you could try simply bleaching and fixing a small piece of unprocessed film (just clip a short piece of leader and do this by hand). If the bleach and fixer are OK you should get the normal "clear" (orangish) film base. (Note that this does not prove the bleach to be fully good, but if the base is still dark brownish you know there is a problem here.)

If the bleach and fix are proven to be OK, well ... the problem seemingly must be either too much development or damaged film. Regarding development, aged developer gradually loses its ability to form an image; it doesn't overdevelop. So you do not expect bad developer to cause a "dark brownish base." (Unless you contaminated it with bleach.)

So if no problem is found yet, most likely it is due to either damaged film or too much development. As a couple people have mentioned, developer temperature might be an issue. With respect to "old" or badly handled film, I've seen a lot of Portra 160, and it's a very rugged film. If it was still in-date, it would take some really bad storage conditions to give it a high base stain. So I'm skeptical that the problem is the film.

This is just a "shot in the dark" set of guesses, lacking any better info.

On a slightly different note you mentioned some internet troubleshooting sources, but NOT Kodak's Z-131. Just in case you are not aware, the Z-131 publication is probably the best source of info on the process, assuming that you can wade through the info (you only need to read the section on rotary processing). I note that you mentioned using replenishment, as well as a rotary processor. Z-131 advises against this combination - if you use a rotary processor Kodak recommends to discard developer after use.

Ps, Z-131 also has a troubleshooting section at the end. It is primarily based on the use of so-called process control strips, being read with a color densitometer. But you could probably gain a lot of knowledge from this section IF you can follow it. You might find it daunting, I dunno (I've spent so many years working with this sort of thing that I've lost my sense of how difficult it might be for "normal" people.)
 
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MingMingPhoto

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Hey everyone! thank you so much for the help. HEre are some photos:


Additiaonly I'm gonna re bleac hand fix again becasue I do remebr being kinda scared when I took it out after washing and by then the bleach had probably colled and I didn't give the machine time to re heat it (casue I ehard you can be less on point with the tempertaure f bleach and fixer)
 

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koraks

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That looks like a pretty massive amount of fog. It doesn't look like unbleached or unfixed silver to me, but rather like overall fog. This can be age and/or temperature related, but it can also be caused by light fogging (although this is generally much more uneven, so much less likely) or a chemical mishap. In case of the latter, it's difficult to track down, but it would likely be related to something up to and including the stop bath (i.e. pre-bath if used, developer and stop bath), so bleach and fix would not be likely candidates.

I will not hurt to re-bleach and re-fix, but I doubt it will help. Give it a try.

PS; the frame with the full-body photo (looking up against the person) looks very seriously underexposed.
 
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MingMingPhoto

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Okay, thank you for this. I saw some documents online and I'm assuming the film was kept poorly for now. But if anyone else has insight please let me know!
Also I re bleached and re fixed twice
 

mohmad khatab

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That looks like a pretty massive amount of fog. It doesn't look like unbleached or unfixed silver to me, but rather like overall fog.

PS; the frame with the full-body photo (looking up against the person) looks very seriously underexposed.
Your observation is really accurate and insightful. .
I felt that too...
And I told the colleague (OP) in the course of my speech that I suspected that the camera's light meter might not be accurate.
 
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