C41-issues

[Mikeyleicasit]

Hi all, I'm having problems with my C41 process. It produces magenta swirls on the negatives and doesn't seem to have a pattern of where. An example is below. I'm using the Kodak f2 kit with the flexicolor LU developer replenisher and lorr starter.

 

[pentaxuser]

Does this happen on an actual frame and if so one frame, several frames? This looks like a leader only. It may seem a chore but it might help if in addition to showing the frames with swirls you tell us in detail of the process, age of chemicals, is this a new problem which didn't exist previously etc.

Currently we are "punching the air" and the thread then becomes lots of questions posed to which you supply answers to each and generally slows down the speed at which the right answer is arrived at.

pentaxuser

 

[bvy]

What kind of reels are you using? How are you agitating?

 

[Mikeyleicasit]

What kind of reels are you using? How are you agitating?

Metal reals 120 film. I first wash for 1min then do the 3:15 for the developer at 102f. Followed by 4:00 bleach, rinse then fixer for 5:00 rinse 5 then stab. For agitation i do 30 sec followed by 15 sec every minute thereafter. Between agitation I put the metal tank in my 102 water bath. Maybe this will help. Thanks, Mike

Btw the swirls are everywhere on the film and I have seen it before. However I tested a roll of fuji 35mm and everything came out fine so I suspected something was wrong with agitation.

 

[pentaxuser]

Do you mean you used different agitation with Fuji 35mm? In what way was it different? Frankly if the Fuji turned out fine then until we know what was different about the agitation pattern we cannot rule out agitation as the cause but I think it unlikely The only other thing that is different is the film. You say you have seen it before. Do you mean some swirls somewhere on all films before when using the exact same method you describe above or only swirls on some films?

pentaxuser

 

[Mr Bill]

Generally speaking, permanent changes in your film can only happen in the development stage. It's possible to get some sorts of streaking if the bleach or fix are somehow inadequate, but repeating these steps should be able to clear up any problems. So I would try a rebleach and fix step just on principle. If that does not clean up the streaks, I'd presume there was a failure of some sort during the development stage.

The official C-41 process does not use a stop bath, but relies on quick immersion into the bleach with good agitation, and this is how commercial machines do it. But if there is any problem here, you can get streaks (I've seen streaking on cine machines if, for example, a developer exit squeegee was loose or the circulation pump was stopped). For a hand-processing tank, I'd seriously consider putting a stop bath after the developer to deal with streaking problems. If rebleaching, etc., doesn't clear things up, this is my best guess as to what you need.

 

[Mikeyleicasit]

Well it was in a Patterson tank but the inversion process was the same. Would the rinse before the developer matter? There has been 14 rolls in the liter of developer. Maybe I should just start over.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Looks like uneven development due to uneven introduction of developer into the tank, or perhaps it is uneven stopping in the second step. Try using a stop bath after the developer.

PE

 

[WilmarcoImaging]

Agree with PE. Looks like a pouring artifact to me.

Pour quickly and smoothly through the center of the tank, using a funnel. Don't pour through the vent. Use a stop bath as PE mentioned. I like to use a pre-wet bath, this is one of the reasons.

Too many rolls of film in the developer (exhausted developer) wouldn't cause this problem.

 

[pentaxuser]

Any idea from anyone why it didn't occur with the Fuji film? The OP hasn't answered my questions on the agitation pattern or the incidence of the swirl pattern

pentaxuser

 

[Mikeyleicasit]

Pentaxuser: I for sure had a different tank with one 35mm reel. Not sure if it was a single metal tank or a Patterson two 35mm tank. The metal tank does not have a center post so I'm thinking that's why it showed up here and not on some other rolls. I'll try the stop bath today. Is ecopro citric acid ok mixed at the normal 1:31?

 

[Mikeyleicasit]

Using my one liter Patterson and two 120films I tried again. I first did the 2:00 rinse followed. Then I poured the developer out of the 1.5 l bottles and into a kodak flex beaker and quickly poured. I followed with a quickly poured stop and continued as I did before . Fixed!!!! Thanks so much for the help. The three lessons:
1.Using a stop may help (and it's easy) .
2. The old metal tanks with the small top should probably be reserved for BW use only when the dev time is long.
3. The quicker pour the better. Maybe prep Chems in containers that are conducive to quickly flow out (like a beaker).

Again thanks everyone!

 

[WilmarcoImaging]

Well done. Yes I agree that pouring quickly and smoothly is helpful.

 

[Misko78]

My experiences says that 2% acetic acid stop bath is essential with 120 films. With 135s there is no difference. I'm using C41RA chemistry in Jobo ATL1000 with custom programs.

120s
0:30 1st prewash
0:30 2nd prewash
3:15 developer
0:45 stop bath
1:00 wash
1:30 bleach
3:00 wash
2:00 fix
4:00 wash
1:00 stabilizer
soft rubber squeegee, hang to dry

135s
3:15 developer
1:30 bleach
3:00 wash
2:00 fix
4:00 wash
1:00 stabilizer
wipe base side with soft pink Vileda microfiber lint free cloth, hang to dry

I know that people will burn me alive for using squeegee on film but i never scratched 120s with it and it drys perfectly with not a single dry mark, film is flat and dust free, on the other hand i never touch 135s with squeegee because it will scratch the base in 9 out of 10 cases.