C41 fix for B&W films and papers

[Photo Engineer]

I have seen some people proposing the use of C41 fixer for B&W films and papers, and have been asked the question, "Can the same fixer be used for B&W if it has been used for color?" and my answer was yes.

Well, I read up on it, as there appeared to be no reason why this cannot take place safely, but it seems that this may not be the case.

It seems that Haist and others have reported that Iodide ion and phenyl mercapto tetrazole (PMT) can adversely affect the stability of silver images.

These chemicals build up in a fixer used for color, and then B&W film or paper fixed afterwards may be influenced in terms of final image stability.

So, I suggtest that you keep any C41 fixer used for color apart from any used for any B&W product. The C41 fixer can be used for B&W, but I would only use it if it has never been used for a color film product.

PE

 

[Petzi]

The C41 fixer can be used for B&W, but I would only use it if it has never been used for a color film product.

That makes sense to me!

 

[htmlguru4242]

Yeah, didn't know the chemical reason, but logic would say that you don't do that anyway...

 

[pentaxuser]

I have seen some people proposing the use of C41 fixer for B&W films and papers, and have been asked the question, "Can the same fixer be used for B&W if it has been used for color?" and my answer was yes.

Well, I read up on it, as there appeared to be no reason why this cannot take place safely, but it seems that this may not be the case.

It seems that Haist and others have reported that Iodide ion and phenyl mercapto tetrazole (PMT) can adversely affect the stability of silver images.

These chemicals build up in a fixer used for color, and then B&W film or paper fixed afterwards may be influenced in terms of final image stability.

So, I suggtest that you keep any C41 fixer used for color apart from any used for any B&W product. The C41 fixer can be used for B&W, but I would only use it if it has never been used for a color film product.

PE

PE Are we talking C41 fixer and/or C41 blix? My problem, possibly shared with other low volume users of C41 blix, is that it can exceed its shelf life before I use it all. Being able to use C41 blix for B&W would help stop waste?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

PE Are we talking C41 fixer and/or C41 blix? My problem, possibly shared with other low volume users of C41 blix, is that it can exceed its shelf life before I use it all. Being able to use C41 blix for B&W would help stop waste?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Pentax;

Is this a trick question?

If you use a blix with a B&W (non-C41) film, you get no image at all, as all of the silver is going to be removed. If you use it with a C41 B&W film, there is no silver image to be concerned about, the image is all dye.

PE

 

[pentaxuser]

Pentax;

Is this a trick question?

If you use a blix with a B&W (non-C41) film, you get no image at all, as all of the silver is going to be removed. If you use it with a C41 B&W film, there is no silver image to be concerned about, the image is all dye.

PE

No. Not a trick question. Just someone who was upset at having to throw a load of blix away recently and probably having to repeat the waste in the future. I was clutching at straws and hadn't stopped to think that blix is a corruption of the two words bleach and fix.

I am now back down to earth but I am still hoping that you can tell me there's an excellent chance that I'll get the 1969 version of Raquel Welch for my 60th birthday but you may have to stop me clutching at that straw as well.

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

No. Not a trick question. Just someone who was upset at having to throw a load of blix away recently and probably having to repeat the waste in the future. I was clutching at straws and hadn't stopped to think that blix is a corruption of the two words bleach and fix.

I am now back down to earth but I am still hoping that you can tell me there's an excellent chance that I'll get the 1969 version of Raquel Welch for my 60th birthday but you may have to stop me clutching at that straw as well.

pentaxuser

If you had a spare Transporter, I would have Mr. Scott beam you a copy of Raquel over. We made a duplicate of her back in 1968 from the original.

If you keep the two parts of the blix apart until use, then they can keep quite a long time - years, in fact, but once mixed they only keep weeks.

You cannot use a blix in any conventional B&W process without image destruction. Use of a blix in color film processing is doable, but chancy due to silver retention.

Let us know about RW, I'm having Scotty stand by to beam her over. There may be import duties though.

PE

 

[pentaxuser]

If you had a spare Transporter, I would have Mr. Scott beam you a copy of Raquel over. We made a duplicate of her back in 1968 from the original.

If you keep the two parts of the blix apart until use, then they can keep quite a long time - years, in fact, but once mixed they only keep weeks.

You cannot use a blix in any conventional B&W process without image destruction. Use of a blix in color film processing is doable, but chancy due to silver retention.

Let us know about RW, I'm having Scotty stand by to beam her over. There may be import duties though.

PE

Ah yes, Star Trek. Well ahead of its time. Sadly Scotty has permanently beamed up and Captain Kirk now appears in British TV adverts. I think the years have been less kind to him than Raquel.

Turning back to photography, I think I'll need to research the use of bleach and fix separately. In the UK anyone found a source for obtaining separate bleach and fix and know of a source for instructions on the use thereof?

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

Pentax;

OTOMH, a starting film bleach is this:

Ammonium Ferric EDTA (~50% solution) 200 ml
Ammonium Bromide 100 g
Di Sodium EDTA 5 g
Sodium Sulfite 5 g (omit this if you use a stop bath)

Water to 1 liter. Adjust pH to 6.7 with acetic acid (28%).

The ferric EDTA is available commercially as a solution.

A good fix is:

Ammonium Hypo (~60%) 200 ml
Disodium EDTA 10 g
Sodium Sulfite 10 g

Water to 1 liter, pH 6.7 with acetic acid (28%).

Do not mix these together to try to make a blix. It isn't the right combination of ingredients..

PE