C41 control strip fluctuations due to unknown factors (Noritsu V30)

[koraks]

I don't THINK I'm mixing incorrectly but is it possible??

Yes. Given the nature of your problems it's one of the first things to verify.

 

[foc]

Yes. Given the nature of your problems it's one of the first things to verify.

Very good point.

@MingMingPhoto can you tell us what chemicals you are using and how you mix your developer tank working solution and how you mix your developer, bleach and fix replenisher (as much detail as possible).

Also, do you change the developer tank circulation filter every time you mix a new tank solution?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Yes. Given the nature of your problems it's one of the first things to verify.

Very good point.

@MingMingPhoto can you tell us what chemicals you are using and how you mix your developer tank working solution and how you mix your developer, bleach and fix replenisher (as much detail as possible).

Also, do you change the developer tank circulation filter every time you mix a new tank solution?

So since I dump twice a week, I only replace filters when they look dirty. they are looking good at the moment.
I'm using the chemicals attached below and also Kodak RA 5L fixer.

I'm following the directions as I see them. I can provide a video if you think that would be helpful to identify any issues.
I also have a box of the Fuji MV developer left over from when I used to use those chemicals. perhaps I can mix a batch of that and see the results I get from that.

The other lab I went to to test my control strips use the same chemicals I am currently using. I'll ask them what their process is for mixing their chemicals as well land get back to you guys
I've also added my most rescent attemps at control strips. one with the v30 and the other with my filmomat rotational machine

 

[John Salim]

I don't know much about minilab processors, but does the V30 have variable transport speed ?
It's possible the high density is caused by too long a time in the developer ( speed too slow ).

John S

 

[MingMingPhoto]

I don't know much about minilab processors, but does the V30 have variable transport speed ?
It's possible the high density is caused by too long a time in the developer ( speed too slow ).

John S

the one I have does not, it's only 3:15 in the dev

 

[foc]

So since I dump twice a week, I only replace filters when they look dirty. they are looking good at the moment.
I'm using the chemicals attached below and also Kodak RA 5L fixer.

Good housekeeping would suggest it is better to change the filter every time there is a change of tank solution. If, for example, there was any contamination in a tank then the filter would hold some of it and could contaminate the freshly mixed tank. Of course, you might get away with a good washing of the filters.

I don't know much about minilab processors, but does the V30 have variable transport speed ?
It's possible the high density is caused by too long a time in the developer ( speed too slow ).

John S

My understanding is that all of these machines are fixed speed motor. (All the Fuji machines I had over the years were all fixed speed). For example if you want to push C41 on one of these processors, the only way is to increase the dev tank temperature.

 

[foc]

@MingMingPhoto . Can you let me know the measurements you use when you mix a new tank solution of developer, please?

How much Starter?
How much (premixed) replenishes?
How much water to top up?
The final number of liters in total?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

Good housekeeping would suggest it is better to change the filter every time there is a change of tank solution. If, for example, there was any contamination in a tank then the filter would hold some of it and could contaminate the freshly mixed tank. Of course, you might get away with a good washing of the filters.



My understanding is that all of these machines are fixed speed motor. (All the Fuji machines I had over the years were all fixed speed). For example if you want to push C41 on one of these processors, the only way is to increase the dev tank temperature.

no not all, some can have the dev time adjusted. not mine however.

@MingMingPhoto . Can you let me know the measurements you use when you mix a new tank solution of developer, please?

How much Starter?
How much (premixed) replenishes?
How much water to top up?
The final number of liters in total?

legit from the directions verbatium. I multiply everything by 7.5 becasue that's how many liters my working tank is. so it's about 93 of starter, 6375 I think of replenisher, and the rest is water. 7.5 liter total

I'm going to try using the MV chemicals again and see if that fixes things actually sicne I'm getting more film than I used to

 

[MingMingPhoto]

hhey guys, sorry for the delay my processor was down for a while. Everyhitng is back up but I'm still having issues with my test strips unfortunatly.

I decided to change my chemicals to a whole differnt version for the developer. I'm plotting very similarly to usual so the issue may be the machine it self? which leads me to ask:

what are all of the variables to look out for when developing c41 in a noritsu v30?

Time,
temp,
chemical quality,
agitation of chemicals,

anything else?

 

[Ericc]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but have you checked the calibration and repeatability of your densitometer? When you read the provided calibration strip that came with the pack does your densitometer get the same results as Fuji?

I think it was fuji that had a great flowchart for figuring out what is going wrong based on how your numbers are deviating from the spec.

-Eric

 

[MingMingPhoto]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but have you checked the calibration and repeatability of your densitometer? When you read the provided calibration strip that came with the pack does your densitometer get the same results as Fuji?

I think it was fuji that had a great flowchart for figuring out what is going wrong based on how your numbers are deviating from the spec.

-Eric

I've gone to other labs and found the readings to be the same as mine. I'm hearing from other labs the run test strips they they are also findig issues with the contorl strips

 

[John Salim]

I've gone to other labs and found the readings to be the same as mine. I'm hearing from other labs the run test strips they they are also findig issues with the contorl strips

Well then it must be the control strips have been compromised somewhere along the line.
You should contact Fuji ( and other labs with the same strips ) to request replacements.

John S

 

[koraks]

I've gone to other labs and found the readings to be the same as mine. I'm hearing from other labs the run test strips they they are also findig issues with the contorl strips

I thought so too, but others I know say they plot well and they get them from the same source. I've also tried various boxes from diff shipements so I think the issue is on my side.

I'm lost.

 

[czygeorge]

I've gone to other labs and found the readings to be the same as mine. I'm hearing from other labs the run test strips they they are also findig issues with the contorl strips

Hey Ming
The following is my suggestion

1.Don't discard the Dev so frequently, the solution of the C-41 is designed to be very tough to oxidized,and it needs process certain amount of film to reach the best state (the reason is too complicated to say but just know it)
2.You did not write down your V30 Dev temperature, the pH value and SG, these three points in my opinion you may make mistakes
3.Replace back to Kodak's control strips (you can already buy it from the official website now)

 

[braxus]

All this is why labs paid for a tech to track down and fix issues like this. Are you connected with Noritsu in any way to get someone out to help you with your machine? How many rolls do you do per week?

 

[MingMingPhoto]

I'm lost.

I went to another lab and saw that our densitometers read the same readings. also their chemicals were in order.

What I ended up doing is putting all fresh chemicals, and then processing a control strip. I applied the correction factors provided by fuji and used that as my reference strip (instead of the one fuji provides). now I base all my control strip results to that strip and plotting is a lot better.

also noticed that I was adjusting the wrong menu item for the replenishment rates which explains why I had seen no result changes when I tried doing this before a few months back

Hey Ming
The following is my suggestion

1.Don't discard the Dev so frequently, the solution of the C-41 is designed to be very tough to oxidized,and it needs process certain amount of film to reach the best state (the reason is too complicated to say but just know it)
2.You did not write down your V30 Dev temperature, the pH value and SG, these three points in my opinion you may make mistakes
3.Replace back to Kodak's control strips (you can already buy it from the official website now)

hey there. I had to discard becasue it was grdually getting worse the more film I'd process. but that's becasue I was at the wrong dev repelnishment setting and thought that I had fixed it (but I hd accidentally adjusted a differnet menu item).

I won't write down the temperatures as the temperature is always accurate to what is displayed on the machine when ever I test it.
I have a PH measuring tool. the last time I used it it seemed to be incredibly random so I'll have to play around with it. What PH should I be looking out for?
thank you for that update! I may go and look about getting theirs again actually. I have a few boxes of the fuji left so it'lll take some time but will be done

All this is why labs paid for a tech to track down and fix issues like this. Are you connected with Noritsu in any way to get someone out to help you with your machine? How many rolls do you do per week?

I get that but I'd rather be self sufficient and understand more of what I'm doing the more I work in the field

 

[foc]

I won't write down the temperatures as the temperature is always accurate to what is displayed on the machine when ever I test it

If I can add one little bit of advice, from someone who has worked in commercial processing for just over 40 years, never say never.

Best practice is to log all the details of the processing and that would include temperature. Just like the mistake of adjusting the different menu item, mistakes can and will be made. By logging every detail it helps to identify a mistake earlier.

 

[czygeorge]

I went to another lab and saw that our densitometers read the same readings. also their chemicals were in order.

What I ended up doing is putting all fresh chemicals, and then processing a control strip. I applied the correction factors provided by fuji and used that as my reference strip (instead of the one fuji provides). now I base all my control strip results to that strip and plotting is a lot better.

also noticed that I was adjusting the wrong menu item for the replenishment rates which explains why I had seen no result changes when I tried doing this before a few months back



hey there. I had to discard becasue it was grdually getting worse the more film I'd process. but that's becasue I was at the wrong dev repelnishment setting and thought that I had fixed it (but I hd accidentally adjusted a differnet menu item).

I won't write down the temperatures as the temperature is always accurate to what is displayed on the machine when ever I test it.
I have a PH measuring tool. the last time I used it it seemed to be incredibly random so I'll have to play around with it. What PH should I be looking out for?
thank you for that update! I may go and look about getting theirs again actually. I have a few boxes of the fuji left so it'lll take some time but will be done



I get that but I'd rather be self sufficient and understand more of what I'm doing the more I work in the field

Hey Ming

The one foc said is correct
The temperature,SG and pH is the most important and regular quality control operation to color processing(in C-41,if.ECN-2 and E-6 you need chemistry analysis)

Although V30 hardly get wrong with the temp,if you put this three in "never" field,I can hardly imagine how could you control or know your developer's status

And now I realize that you have to discard developer since you have lack of ways to make it in control

But what I want to tell you and maybe other lab runner is that if you don know this 3 things you can get wrong even if the chemical is new(like C-41 LORR dev can goes up to 10.2 when new if you don't do anything to make it to 10.03)