C41 chemistry--what for developer?

[Photo Engineer]

The plastic bottle version keeps about 3 years and the glass bottle version keeps about 5. The smallest bottle is the CD4 and if it is dark, the kit is bad.

Kodak updates the web site just about daily, so if the product is there, it is available! They immediately announce any product that is discontinued.

PE

 

[Lopaka]

Something doesn't quite track here - the "Flexicolor Developer" - which would be the 1 gal version is no longer listed on this page for rotary tube processing (actually not listed at all):

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...cts/chemicals/flexicolor1.jhtml?pq-path=12549

Instead it lists the "Flexicolor SM" as usable for rotary tube - I'm sure I read in the past that package was only for SM processors! This page seems to be out of synch with pub Z-131.

Am I confused or what??

I'm really not trying to slam EK. It does seem to appear that the Flexicolor Developer in the 1 gal that doesn't need a starter is gone.

Bob

 

[Photo Engineer]

Bob;

If you look at the URL I posted earlier here, it is still listed though. And people have found it still available. I think it may be due to the fact that a "subcontractor" now operates the former chemicals division at Kodak Park and there has been a miscommunication. Remember, Kodak sold all process solution making about a year ago to a French firm.

PE

 

[donbga]

Bob;

If you look at the URL I posted earlier here, it is still listed though. And people have found it still available. I think it may be due to the fact that a "subcontractor" now operates the former chemicals division at Kodak Park and there has been a miscommunication. Remember, Kodak sold all process solution making about a year ago to a French firm.

PE

Okay assuming that one can still order these 1 and 3.5 gal sizes of C-41 chemicals that doesn't require starter, are instructions available for processing in a Jobo rotary processor - (rotation speed)?

I'm certainly glad this thread got started as I've been totally confused by the Kodak C-41 film product mix as it pertains to small volume users, like myself amd others.

Having the ability to process 120 C-41 film means that I will shoot a lot more of it than I have in the past since professional finishing has become expensive and hard to find locally.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Jobo recommends the film rotation speed which is marked in the instructions. On the dial on some Jobo units there is an F and a P, choose the one that gives the higher cycle rate.

Do not use a slow rate of agitation and do use a good prewet. I use 1 - 3 mins and a 3.25' development time as suggested by Kodak. I have posted the C41 cycle here elsewhere.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

According to the instructions for an ATL-2, 75 RPM with lateral agitation set at 50.

 

[epatsellis]

Don, Z131 had reccomendations for rotary processing (page 3-6), and in my experience I would suggest control strips and a densitometer to get it nailed as closely as you can, you will have to make some adjustments depending on tube thermal losses, etc.

 

[Donsta]

Anyone found out anymore on this?

 

[donbga]

Anyone found out anymore on this?

Don,

It's on my to do list today to call them and get more information.

 

[stevewillard]

I have just talked with my wholesaler for Kodak chemistry and he said that c-41SM is the replacement for c-41 gallon size. Kodak is now recommending to use the c-41SM tank solution for drum processing.

My wholesaler thinks it is the same developer except you have to purchase it in 10 to 12 liters bottles. It comes premixed and it is designed for low utilization. I suspect there are additives that you can purchase to make it more stable and further reduce oxidation.

You could store it in a number of floating lid containers found at B&H at URL

www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/797/Storage_Bottles_Tanks.html

I made up a 10L batch of RA4 RT replenisher developer last September for developing color paper and stored it in one of the the floating lid containers. This June I emptied it with only 1L left and the chemistry was still very clear with no noticeable discoloring from oxidation. I suspect you could store c-41SM in a floating lid container for many months without any degradation in performance.

My wholesaler believes the c-41SM is a better solution with no mixing and good storage life in a floating lid container, and I am inclined to agree with him. For me, I am cautiously saying this may be good news.

 

[MikeSeb]

Everyone's input on this has been terrific. Thanks all for the collective wisdom.

Sifting thru various Kodak publications, the SM product line is indeed the version intended for small-tank, nonreplenished systems. Now if I could only find the stuff....

Guess it's a sign of the times--Adorama ships everything, but carries little and doesn't have the SM stuff. Ditto Calumet. B&H carries everything, but ships little and/or has high minimum orders.

Any ideas about sourcing while I keep Googling?

Seriously, thank you one and all. Really appreciate the help.

 

[mtjade2007]

Hum... this is really the worst of what I wish to hear. To me this says Kodak has shot its own foot again. This really shuts the door for many who wants to get a taste of home C-41 processing. We saw from time to time people asked how to get into C-41 home processing. We could always tell them that it is easy and the gallon sized developer, Bleach and Fixer are available from Kodak. Now we have to tell them they have to buy 10 - 12 liters of everything. You can imagine most, if not all, will shy away. This takes away a lof of the fun part of the hobby of photography with films. Obviously this will push the film to sooner death.

Black and white photography probably would have mostly vanished had black and white processing chemicals been no longer available. Who would still shoot black and white films and send the films out for developing and printing?

C-41 SM is not new. It has been there for many years. What they are doing is nothing but discontinuing support for individuals to process at home. You may want to look for the remaining stock from retailers and snap them up for use for a while. After that you probably will have to face a decision if you want to continue shooting films when a large fun part of the hobby is taken away.

BTW, I think C-41SM is for SM processors. SM processing was solely a Kodak concept. Kodak probably pushed it hard and tried to sell SM processors to the industry. Unfortunately Japanese defeated Kodak completely. You really don't see labs adopting SM processors. It seems the SM processing concept is a failed concept. SM processors from Kodak never really took off. As of today Japanese digital processors really dominate the industry. You do not see many Kodak processors. You rarely see any Kodak SM processors. I wonder if it is truly an intension from Kodak to replace gallon sized chemicals with SM packages. I would use C-41 RA chemicals than SM chemicals. C-41 RA chemicals are still widely available from photochemical wholesale distributors. Every major US city should have one such distributor in it.

 

[srs5694]

Guess it's a sign of the times--Adorama ships everything, but carries little and doesn't have the SM stuff. Ditto Calumet. B&H carries everything, but ships little and/or has high minimum orders.

Any ideas about sourcing while I keep Googling?

Try Unique Photo. They've got a good selection (including Fuji chemicals that are hard to find), but a terrible Web page design. I've heard they're helpful on the phone, but the few times I've ordered from them I've managed to find what I wanted on the Web page.

 

[srs5694]

Hum... this is really the worst of what I wish to hear. To me this says Kodak has shot its own foot again. This really shuts the door for many who wants to get a taste of home C-41 processing.

Not at all. People can still buy Tetenal, Unicolor, and other brands of C-41 chemicals, and they're easier for a beginner to start with, since they come in smaller quantities (even smaller than the 1-gallon size that's been Kodak's smallest for a while) and they use blixes rather than separate bleaches and fixers. Yes, I know: Separate bleaches and fixers are better; I go that route myself. Blixes are easier, though, and to somebody who's just starting with C-41, that can be important. This isn't to say that Kodak's discontinuing smaller sizes (if that's what they've really done) is a good move from the consumer's point of view, but it's important to recognize that Kodak isn't the only supplier of C-41 chemicals.

This takes away a lof of the fun part of the hobby of photography with films. Obviously this will push the film to sooner death.

I doubt it. There are several 1-hour photofinishers in my town, but nowhere to buy hobbyist C-41 chemicals. That tells me that the market is driven by the photofinishers, not the hobbyists. If the hobbyists were to go away, I doubt if it would make much difference in the overall marketplace. If the happy snappers who use photofinishers were to go away, OTOH, the C-41 marketplace would be essentially gone. I doubt if even Ferrania could be sustained by the remaining hobbyist users alone, in terms of film production.

 

[stevewillard]

According to my supplier c-41SM should become more readily avaliable soon. You could email the big Photo places that will ship asking them to stock c-41SN so that you can continue processing your c-41SM film. I intend to buy mine through Denver Pro Photo. Their prices are not bad, but not as good as B&H. They will ship anywhere, and their number is

(866)-360-4940. Ask for Victor.

 

[mtjade2007]

I would use C-41 RA chemicals than SM chemicals.

What I meant to say is I will use C-41 Developer Replenisher LORR. This is the most economical C-41 developer solution to me. Last time I paid less than $100 for a box of it. It came with 4 sets of chemicals. Each set have Part A, B and C 3 bottles of the developer replenisher. Each set makes 12 liters of replenisher when mixed with water.

I use this LORR replenisher to replenish my retail gallon sized developer to use in my Jobo processor. I always started out with the gallon developer. After it is used once I replenish it with the replenisher. For most people the gallon sized developer would be tossed after used once. But I replenish it with the LORR replenisher. LORR replenisher has twice the strength of non LORR replenisher. That means it is 24 liter of juice, not 12 liter.

As a result I have been able to produce excellent negatives. I basically use more juice than the recommended quantity to develop my films. If 250 ml is recommended for a roll of film I would use 500 ml instead. I process more than one roll of film at a time of course to increase productivity. I have to use a larger tank and pour almost the max quantity of the replenished developer allowed by the tank to process 2 rolls of films. The resulted negatives have been excellent. Because of the cheaper cost from using LORR replenisher it allows me to be a little wasteful in using the developer. In return I am assured of no failure of development caused by insufficient quantity of developer used. 12 liter x 4 (effectively 24 liter x 4) is more than enough for me for one year.

I really don't need to worry about the retail gallon sized developer being discontinued. It has little impact to me. But it basically will wipe out beginner or will be beginners because of the larger entry barrier. If you are an experienced home processing individual you can easily find $-41 Developer Replenisher LORR from your local chemical wholesale supplier. They exist and they are the ones supplying mini-labs. They will want your business. In my opinion this is the best answer to your C-41 developer need. If you gather 3 friends to make a purchase of one box for lesss than $100. You will get 12 (effectively 24) liters of the juice. You will not want the gallon developer any more.

You will still need a developer starter for the LORR replenisher. It is cheap and available too. But I was told you can go straight to develop films without the starter. I do not believe that and have not tried it. But I was told by a mini-lab owner. It will become seasoned after developing some films anyway. I may try it without the starter and see what happens.

C-41 beach RA is the bleach to get. It is in a concentrate form. It speed us bleach from 6.5 minutes to about 2 minutes. I have a few bottles of this bleach. I use it to replenish my seasoned bleach. One bottle of this juice lasts almost forever. I am still using gallon sized fixer. It is cheap and it has twice the potency of the developer. So I continue to use the gallon fixed as long as it is available.

So, I hope none of you are discouraged by the disappearing gallon sized C-41 developer. It's not the end of the world to home C-41 processing. Small packages for beginners are no more. But if you are serious your cost is actually lower for the next size available. Go for it. That's what I have been using anyway.

By the way, Tetenal, Unicolr and Arista are not real things. C-41 Blix is junk. Use the real things. That's how you get real negatives. Wasn't that been taught over and over already?