C-41 processing times????

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DanielStone

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so PE, you recommend:

5-6 min wash (after Bleach)
bleach as normal
another 5-6 min wash(before stabilizer)
1.5-2min stabilize...

does temperature affect the effectiveness of stabilizer/final wash?

thanks

Dan
 

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Temperature does not affect stabilzer/final rinse, but does affect wash rate and times within reason.

If your post bleach wash is too short, your fix will gradually discolor and will go bad more rapidly due to carryover. If your post fix wash it too short, then you retain hypo and silver in the coating and we all know what that does!

PE
 

DanielStone

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:smile:, thankfully PE, no. I generally do a 5-7min final wash at 95-100deg F. kodak says that you can use it up to 105def F in their literature.

but I guess I'm a stickler for having my negs 'archival' :smile:.

-Dan
 

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The image is dense and colored on each side when wet but becomes clear when dry.

If the density does not decrease when dry, then the bleach and / or fix were faulty.

PE
 

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Bleach III is greenish and the earlier bleaches are red. The pH of Bleach III is lower than the earlier ones so the range is from about 5.5 (BIII) to 6.5 for the red ones.

PE
 
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stradibarrius

stradibarrius

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This the Trebla c-41 chemistry. I was able to get a kit that has the dev, starter, bleach fix and stabilizer. the bleach is a dark color and smells acidic like B&W chemiistry. How can I tell if it is the bleach or the fix?
 

DanielStone

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bleach/fix might be the problem. PE recommends separate bleach and fix steps. Being that there is a 3:15(I use 4-5) minute wash cycle in between, causing the bleach still in the emulsion to be purged as much as possible, therefore, leading to less contamination of the fixer.

bleach turns dark brownish red. i think that this is due to oxidation, PE can confirm/deny this.

-Dan
 

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Guys;

Look, I don't try all chemistries out for quality, functionality or usability. All I know is Kodak and by license Fuji chemistry. I know Bleaches, Fixes and Blixes for film. Something may be odd here, but IDK. Lets wait until they dry down. If they are dense, then the bleach and / or fix may be at fault. Just re-bleach, wash and fix in known good chemistry, then wash and stabilize/final rinse. It will correct itself if there is a fault.

Bleach III is greenish.

PE
 

DanielStone

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sorry PE, I know Bleach III is greenish, but goes brown after a while.

he uses blix though from the Trebla kit.
 

DanielStone

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interesting....

PE, do you do a mild wash step in between Dev and Bleach steps? if so, what does it do? Less bleach exhaustion?

-Dan
 

hrst

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I used a wash between dev and blix when I used Tetenal chemistry (with blix); but if you use wash, you should also use a stop bath, otherwise the development continues in washing stage. So, it was: dev, stop, wash, wash, blix, 7-8 x wash, stab.

But, when I moved to Fujihunt kit, I read somewhere that the bleach may even need some carryover from alkaline developer. I'm going directly from dev to bleach. This saves also time, and probably it doesn't hurt to follow the directions :wink:
 

DanielStone

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ok. well, I haven't had any bad results from the chem's at school. they mixed a new Kodak flexicolor batch the other night, so all the chemistry is totally new. developed some the other day. its nice to have fresh chems. I'll just continue with the dev-bleach straight through.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it :D

Dan
 

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Here are the data sheets you want to read for the Kodak kit: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/retailPhoto/techInfo/zManuals/z131.jhtml?pq-path=12338. Read sections 1 and 3 for sure.

How other brands vary from this process, I have no idea...but this is the way the company whose process it is tells us to do it.

Kodak's C-41 Flexicolor home kit process is as follows (hand processing in inversion tanks):

Developer: 3:15 (100 F) - Fine tune with process control strips if desired.
Bleach: 6:30 (75 - 105 F)

Both of these steps are done in the dark. The following steps may be done in room light.

Wash: 3:15 (75 - 105 F)
Fixer: 6:30 (75 - 105 F)
Wash: 3:15 (75 - 105 F)
Stabilizer: 1:30 (75 - 105 F)

This is from memory, so double check me.

Extending wash times can't hurt. For each of the two washes, I fill and empty the tank a few times to get rid of the bulk of the remaining chemicals (bleach the first time and fixer the second), then I do four 1:00 washes, using a four-35mm-reel tank, swapping the bottom roll to the top after each minute, and restarting the timer only once the tank has been filled again. For 120 and 220, I do two-minute increments instead of one-minute increments. For my ten-sheet 4x5 Jobo Expert tank, I do an initial 30-second rinse of each tube, then four one minute cycles with rotation, and then rinse each tube individually for 30 seconds again.

HOWEVER, adding a wash between developer and stabilizer can affect your negatives. The way I have had it explained to me, with a pre-bleach wash step, the negs continue to develop a little bit in the wash, and the layers develop in a mismatched way because the lower layers have the developer washed out later than the top layers. Because color balance is controlled by each layer's density, a mismatch can change color balance, and can make obtaining "proper" color during printing difficult or sometimes just plain impossible if it is a severe enough mismatch. I have had this happen to my negatives when I was first doing color film. I figured I would try to be good to my bleach and rinse out the developer fully before pouring in the bleach. Results were ugly until I figured out what was going on. Bleach acts as a stop bath as well as bleaching the negs. It is not so important with black and white to stop development ASAP, but it is important with color due to the multiple-layer construction of the emulsion.

Each gallon of this chemistry is good for 15 rolls of 135, 11 rolls of 120, 5 rolls of 220, or 38 sheets of 4x5. If you want to reuse the gallon after these limits, you can, but you have to add time after the limit is reached. You can do up to three reuses of the gallon. For the first reuse, your developer time increases from 3:15 to 3:23. I forgot the times for developing the second and third reuses. I have done two reuses, but not three. (My chemistry is usually over the hump by then anyhow, so I have been leery of trying to use it on its last legs both calendar-wise and capacity-wise.)
 
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DanielStone

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thanks keith,

appreciate that. Jim mixed new chemistry from scratch the other night. vicki showed him how so she doesn't have to do it.

ya, after the 15th roll, the time does go to 3:23. My class did something like 60+ rolls, the last one I did on that batch came out really bad. waaaaayyyyy under-developed. there were a couple people who I KNOW developed a good bit of film, but didn't write it down on the sheet on the wall next to the sink. bums! had to re-shoot that assignment.

now, I'm making it my personal mission to make sure that anyone who uses the chems marks their usage down! prayers of support are requested :D.

I don't remember the times either for 2nd and 3rd uses. I won't let the dev go past 2 uses from now on for the rest of the term.

otherwise, your times quoted for the rest of the process are spot on. i just do 5 minute washes with the water at 100F. seems to work fine.

blessings

Dan
 
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stradibarrius

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This trebla kit is not a BLIX kit. It has seperate bleach and fix and stabilizer.
My steps were
water rinse
Dev. 3:30 @102f
water rinse
Bleach 5:30
water rinse
Fix 2 min
water rinse
Stabilizer
final wash

Would the fact that I only "bleached" for 5:30" be the reason the negatives are sooooo dense?
 

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interesting....

PE, do you do a mild wash step in between Dev and Bleach steps? if so, what does it do? Less bleach exhaustion?

-Dan

I do NOT use a wash or stop with C-41. I do use a stop with RA when doing paper. I use a prewet with both film and paper.

PE
 

markbarendt

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Barry,

I've done it with and without pre-wash.

Developer 3'15" @ 100f (average) is my target. 3'30" is a 1/2-stop push, if your temp stays high that's a bit more push too.

I don't rinse after development, straight to bleach for 6'30". The other thing I do for the bleach is to make sure there is air in the tank. My understanding is that the bleach needs real air with oxygen to work best. I do no more than 3 rolls in a 1-liter 4-roll tank and only use enough bleach to cover the film, that leaves about 250ml of air.

My first wash is at least 3'15" in nice warm tap water, I don't think extra hurts.

I fix for 6'30" @ 90-95f. (90-95 is where my half baked water bath holds the chems. The water is 100f but the tray is not very deep.)

3'15" or better wash again.

Stabilizer 1'30" @ 90-95f.

The only overly light/dark negs I've had with these chems is when I have mis-exposed or improperly mixed or my agitation was off.

This trebla kit is not a BLIX kit. It has seperate bleach and fix and stabilizer.
My steps were
water rinse
Dev. 3:30 @102f
water rinse
Bleach 5:30
water rinse
Fix 2 min
water rinse
Stabilizer
final wash

Would the fact that I only "bleached" for 5:30" be the reason the negatives are sooooo dense?
 
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