C-41 powder kit vs. liquid

[jbrubaker]

Is there any reason to stay away from powder based C-41 kits? They appear to be cheaper and more friendly to ship. thanks---john.

 

[ewbank1]

No reason to stay away from them. I successfully used a Unicolor powder kit for my first attempt at C-41. After processing about 15 rolls, I then ordered the list that bvy recommended in the "List of Color Chemicals" sticky since it seemed it would be cheaper and it is working well for me. I like using the liquids from the list below since the developer is used one shot. That means no guessing about the time.
"
C-41 Developer Replenisher ($13.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672/

C-41 Developer Starter ($12.51)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-c-41-dev-starter-lorr-1-2l-6601074/

Separate Bleach and Fix ($30.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Final Rinse ($2.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-sm-c-41sm-tank-final-rinse-1925254/

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[Punker]

I've tried both and have noticed absolutely no difference in the quality from either. Liquid is slightly easier to mix but now I just stick to the the cheap Unicolor kit.

 

[trythis]

I have had much better luck with the shelf life of the liquid kit BVY made up. The dry kit blix began to fail after the first couple of days where I can wait weeks or months with a bleach fix kit. The bleach just needs oxygen shaken or mixed in and the fix lasts and lasts if its clean. The developer BVY suggests is designed to sit in a machine that gets used infrequently, so its an ideal solution to the occasional development of a roll or two. The powder is probably just fine if you are going to save up 15 rolls to develop at one time but the BLIX attacks itself chemically (pardon my lack of scientific verbiage there).

 

[Photo Engineer]

The dry blix kit is problematic. Indeed, any blix for film is problematic.

PE

 

[Sirius Glass]

I only use the Unicolor 1 liter kit from powder and never had a problem.

 

[Truzi]

After reading a lot of APUG and other sources over the years, I decided to go with separate bleach and fix, which I've not seen in a powdered kit. I didn't want to risk it. (I also use a stop bath.)

My first attempt was with a Digibase kit, but the latest version no longer has a separate bleach and fix.

Like ewbank1, I recently went with bvy's recommendation of the Kodak Flexicolor chemicals. As a matter of fact, they arrived today. I've collected enough exposed color film that I need two of the 5-liter kits, so instead I bought the 20-liter one. Even if it goes bad before I finish it, I will have saved money.

 

[ewbank1]

The dry blix kit is problematic. Indeed, any blix for film is problematic.

PE

PE, I assume it has been explained before but I have not run across the reason why blix is problematic. Would you please point me in the direction for finding the information why blix or powder doesn't work as well. Thanks, Ed

 

[iandvaag]

Basically it is not possible to formulate a good blix for film that has reasonable shelf life. BTW, there is an acceptable blix for RA-4. The acidic, oxidizing environment of a properly formulated bleach is an environment that is unstable to thiosulfate.

You risk having retained silver, and possibly retained silver halide. PE describes the problems of retained silver in (there was a url link here which no longer exists). He mentions three main issues which may occur:
-slight distortion of color if the silver is colored
-addition of a very slight patterning, or grain
-degradation in sharpness.

Also read (there was a url link here which no longer exists) from a few years back for more details on the difficulty of formulating a proper blix. He has given some "best practices" to minimize the risk of problems caused by film blixes if you are unable to use a separate bleach and fix. You may also be interested in (there was a url link here which no longer exists) for converting C-41/E-6 kits that contain a blix into a separate bleach and fixer.

 

[Arctic amateur]

But is the powder blix any worse than liquid blix?

 

[dmr]

I've tried both and have noticed absolutely no difference in the quality from either. Liquid is slightly easier to mix but now I just stick to the the cheap Unicolor kit.

I'm just starting doing C41 processing at home and I'm sticking with liquid just for the convenience of it. As I get older, I find I'm more willing to pay for convenience in many things. As PE said, one of the solutions may be tedious to mix from powder and that's one part of the process I know I would not really enjoy.

The kit I got is branded Cinestill, but looking at the bottles it appears to be identical to that sold under the Arista brand as well. I'm finding it very easy to mix up 8oz. batches of the solutions as I need them.

I'm going to home processing mainly because it's no longer quick and convenient to get film processed. I find myself shooting less film (which I enjoy) and more {d-word} due to that. The one local lab that still does it is now on a three-day turnaround and I value instant gratification.

 

[Rudeofus]

But is the powder blix any worse than liquid blix?

It's the cation which comes with powder kit vs. liquid kit. Liquid kits make a BLIX from Ammonium Ferric EDTA and Ammonium Thiosulfate plus some bleach accelerator, whereas powder kits typically come with Sodium Ferric EDTA, Ammonium Thiosulfate and some bleach accelerator. As we already know from B&W material fixation, that sodium vs. ammonium can make a big difference in speed, capacity and effectiveness, especially with modern high iodide emulsions.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I guess my comment has been answered. Thanks to all.

PE

 

[ewbank1]

"...PE describes the problems of retained silver in (there was a url link here which no longer exists). ...

Also read (there was a url link here which no longer exists) from a few years back for more details on the difficulty of formulating a proper blix. "

iandvaag,

Thanks for the above links to PE's posts. They were quite informative. I was pleased to just get usable negatives from my first C-41 developing attempt with a powder kit. I am getting more consistent results now with using bulk chemicals with a separate bleach and fix.

Ed

 

[ewbank1]

I guess my comment has been answered. Thanks to all.

PE

Thanks to you, PE, for all you contribute.

Ed

 

[Photo Engineer]

You are quite welcome. I try. I'm not always right. We all have to remember that, and that includes me.

PE

 

[dmr]

Also read (there was a url link here which no longer exists) from a few years back for more details on the difficulty of formulating a proper blix. "

Thanks for posting that link, and thanks for your input, PE.

One take-away I got from that is that it does not hurt to let the blix cycle run long, just to be sure.