BW Film Frustration

[Sirius Glass]

When I use the simple steel tanks I never had any of these problems. When I use the Jobo tanks and drums I never had any of these problems. So what am I doing wrong?

 

[Bill Burk]

Hi,
I have seen this a number of times on my films. I did not have a clue about what was going on, until I saw this thread and explanation on the Film-and-Darkroom-User site (FADU.ORG.UK).
I believe that Peter Hogan has explained what it is. After I started to do things as he described, I have not seen it again.
Hope it works for you.
Jon

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=591&highlight=reel

Thanks jonogmun,

Seems like a strong possibility, scientifically identified! Culprit might be a wash aid.

 

[bvy]

In more than 47 years of photography and 40 years of teaching people photography I have never found a single situation where development problems have not been cured by three basic steps:

• Ensure that the tank is thoroughly clean - this means giving it and the reels a final rinse with very hot water (especially if Photoflo or similar has been used).
• Always sharply tap the bottom of the tank after each and every inversion sequence.
• Always use a pre-soak of at least 2 minutes.

Check on one and two. I don't do it every time, but before this roll, I washed the tank and reels with soap and hot water. The reel used for the errant film is brand new -- this is maybe the third time I've used it. Also, I always give the tank a good knock after agitating.

I've never really used a pre-soak though.

At this point, I'm trying to decide between using the a drops of the Edwal wetting agent in the developer, or adding a presoak.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Did you tap the film tank on a hard surface when it's filled with developer to dislodge any air bubbles?

 

[bvy]

Did you tap the film tank on a hard surface when it's filled with developer to dislodge any air bubbles?

Yes.

 

[Doc W]

I can't add much to what has been said but here goes anyway.

It isn't the developer dilution I have used HC-110 for a decade now with roll film (I use it for all formats) and I have not experienced your problem. I have used it a variety of dilutions, and both with and without a pre-soak with no problems.

I make sure that the reel onto which I am loading film is absolutely bone dry. I flick it very hard several times to see if any water is on it (I hold it in my right and flick it on my arm so I can feel the drops, if any). Quite often there are droplets even if I have not used the reel for a day or two. It is amazing how tenacious those little drops can be. If I discover droplets, I either set that reel aside or use paper towel to get into the tiny spaces. I use plastic Paterson tanks.

 

[piu58]

I recommend to use continuous agitation. The developing times need to shorten for this, depending on teh developper at around 20-30 %. You will never have problems with air bubbles then. It is even possible to use less developer which doesn't cover the whole roll.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have no idea what OP is doing. I recommend to record developing on video and show us next time problem occurs.
Something is wrong.

I don't prewash, I don't tap, but tap water. I use plastic instead of fancy steel reels/tanks. It gets self-cleaned after getting grey from ecn2. I don't measure temperature, I'm not precise with measuring, times and agitations.

If I scan it, spots and else. Guess what, I'm wiping it off hard way with Ilford cloth, blowing it with Rocket blower and placing under enlarger... It gives me absolutely clean prints.
Do not scan, or check it with magnifier, clean as I described and print.

 

[mrjr]

Helpful thread. I'm brand new to film development, and I'm taking note of all the recommendations here, particularly the meticulous cleaning of plastic tank/reels.

 

[bvy]

I'm trying to simulate the problem with an open tank in room light. Can I load a reel with exposed (scrap) film, fill the tank with water, and see bubbles with the tank open? Or does it have to be unexposed film and/or developer (not water)?

If I load the tank with empty reels and pour in water, I so see bubbles adhering to the tracks of the top reel. They do respond to knocking the tank (i.e. they free up and come to the surface), but it takes five or six knocks to do so -- more than I've been doing. Again, though, that's with an empty reel which I'm not sure is a good simulation of the problem.

 

[Bill Burk]

If I load the tank with empty reels and pour in water, I so see bubbles adhering to the tracks of the top reel. They do respond to knocking the tank (i.e. they free up and come to the surface), but it takes five or six knocks to do so -- more than I've been doing. Again, though, that's with an empty reel which I'm not sure is a good simulation of the problem.

I think it's a great simulation! You could always load a reel with any kind of scrap film... And you could use some additive in the water to give it some consistency of developer (maybe some old bottle of developer that you were going to dump anyway).

But I think you've already seen that it "takes five or six knocks" and maybe that's all you ever had to do.

Good luck, I know you'll solve it once and for all.

 

[Luis-F-S]

When I use the simple steel tanks I never had any of these problems. When I use the Jobo tanks and drums I never had any of these problems. So what am I doing wrong?

You're actually processing film instead of writing about it! I processed two rolls of 120 Tri X last nite like I described in this thread- no issues just like the last 4000 rolls...... L

 

[MattKing]

I'm trying to simulate the problem with an open tank in room light. Can I load a reel with exposed (scrap) film, fill the tank with water, and see bubbles with the tank open? Or does it have to be unexposed film and/or developer (not water)?

If I load the tank with empty reels and pour in water, I so see bubbles adhering to the tracks of the top reel. They do respond to knocking the tank (i.e. they free up and come to the surface), but it takes five or six knocks to do so -- more than I've been doing. Again, though, that's with an empty reel which I'm not sure is a good simulation of the problem.

To make the simulation accurate, you need to add some of your initial agitation.

Bubbles that are immediately dislodged by the knocking and the first seconds of initial, continuous agitation are not a problem. The ones that stubbornly hang around despite the knocking and initial agitation - they are the problem.

 

[StephenT]

Don't put rinse aid in your tank. Put it in a spray bottle and simply spray the film when you take it off the reels.

 

[NedL]

Don't put rinse aid in your tank. Put it in a spray bottle and simply spray the film when you take it off the reels.

Interesting. Do you spray the film after it is hanging?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm trying to simulate the problem with an open tank in room light. Can I load a reel with exposed (scrap) film, fill the tank with water, and see bubbles with the tank open? Or does it have to be unexposed film and/or developer (not water)?

If I load the tank with empty reels and pour in water, I so see bubbles adhering to the tracks of the top reel. They do respond to knocking the tank (i.e. they free up and come to the surface), but it takes five or six knocks to do so -- more than I've been doing. Again, though, that's with an empty reel which I'm not sure is a good simulation of the problem.

I found that the tanks needed hard wraps on the sink or preferably on a cushion pad as I stated above.