Buying Equipment from KEH

BradS · May 21, 2008

It depends.
For LF Lenses, their BGN rating is usually pretty darned good.

For 35mm bodies, it can make a big difference. They also seem to grade 35mm bodies on cosmetics ONLY. Therefore, a body graded EX will look good but may very well have a mechanical problem. Maybe, it depends on brand. I've never had any luck trying to buy used Nikon Manual focus 35mm bodies from them and, believe me, I have tried many times. I have given up and will not buy 35mm gear from them - nothing but trouble and endless mailing stuff back and forth.

PhotoJim · May 21, 2008

My experience:

Nikon FE - sticky multiple exposure lever. Otherwise fine.
Nikon F4s - Overall good, some wear and tear but nothing ridiculous. Had an electronic fault that caused it to kill a set of batteries in about 48 hours. Sent it back.
Nikon F4s (#2) - Missing the eyepiece. Some wear and tear, but everything works fine.

I also got an EX-rated Nikon F5 that was in really nice condition with no faults visible other than some wear around the tripod mount.

Jim

Markok765 · May 21, 2008

Jim, how much wear and tear was on the F4s[#2]?

Is it worth paying $150 more for a EX body?

BradS · May 21, 2008

Nikon F3HP, [EX]: beautiful cosmetices meter intermittent. Returned for another.
second one: cosmetics excellent, shutter wrinkled and not exposing full frame at high speeds - returned for refund.

A year and a half later:
Nikon FA , [EX]: missing eyepice, +/- light on continuously no matter what exposure compensation dialed in (including 0). exchange for
second Nikon FA: also missing eye piece. little shutter speed display in view finder dead. Exchanged for..
third Nikon FA: Worked in manual mode only. None of the auto exposure modes worked at all. Returned for refund.

Nikon FE (BGN): looked pretty good. I might have called it excellent cosmetics on ebay. Meter dead. Returned and vowed "Never Again".

By contrast, I've only once needed to return a LF lens - and it was obvious that hey just simply shipped the wrong lens. It wasn't even close - except the focal length was the same as I had originally ordered. Unfortunately, they did not have the lens I ordered in stock. So, got a refund and bought one from Jim at MPEX.

Toffle · May 21, 2008

BGN Bronica GS-1. Not a single problem in 10 months. The back shows a bit of wear, but that is common... and easily replaced if need be. Brassing and other wear is quite acceptable. Keh is generally quite reliable; trust them.

Cheers,

Markok765 · May 21, 2008

So brassing would not affect the mechanical condition of the camera?

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 21, 2008

I bought BGN:

Pentax M42 SMC lenses: badassly clean and smooth. real jewels that I actually sold for the same amount later when I had to.

Nikon FM2n: lots of scratch on the top plate, film door that is a bit temperamental to close (just a bit), and 1/4000s shutter speed about half a stop slow. Nevertheless it has never choked.

Nikon AI lenses: nothing wrong here, they just feel like they've been used, but the glass is pristine and the results are up to par.

Rolleiflex T: the m******r just broke in my hands, and I am returning it.

Morality of the story: anything goes. That's why they have a return policy that they honour.

This time I'm buying a Mamiya C330 with 105mm DS in EX condition. For small items, I think BGN grade is a good option. But for bigger investments, I decided to stick to EX from now on. Certain cameras are more temperamental than others--the Rollei T I got was at least 40 years old, so something was bound to happen to it at some point.

Markok765 · May 21, 2008

I'm getting a F5. Is it worth to stick with EX?

Toffle · May 21, 2008

Markok765 said:
So brassing would not affect the mechanical condition of the camera?

I'm getting a F5. Is it worth to stick with EX?

Brassing should not affect the mechanical condition, but there is always the possibility that it is an indication of rough use along the way.

As to whether you should hold out for EX, you will find as many opinions as rasins in a box of bran. My opinion is to take the BGN body and put your savings into the best glass you can afford.

Cheers,

elekm · May 21, 2008

If you're concerned about bargain condition, then I would spend another $150 for the one that's in better physical condition. And unlike eBay, you have some recourse should the camera turn out to be faulty.

vdonovan · May 21, 2008

All of the Bargain gear I've bought from KEH has functioned perfectly.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 21, 2008

The only thing to bear in mind with the return policy is this: you live in Canada like I do, so you have two shipping options. Either the very expensive (but super-fast) UPS Express, which is the only option to give you a tracking number, or the FedEx Letter Parcel or whatever it's called. The latter means that KEH give the package to FedEx, and at the border, FedEx transfers it to CanadaPost regular parcel service, i.e. no tracking number, and five weeks at least for delivery.

I'm in the process of finding out what an exchange means in terms of shipping fees. When the Rollei shipped to me, it cost 76$ shipping, plus 60$ of duty. Now I have to return it, so it's going to be at least an extra $30+ depending on how I ship it back. The Mamiya kit will have to be shipped as well, and I'm not letting Canada Post delay again a 500$ package for me for a month.

So I've talked with KEH and asked them to "meet me midway" and help me cover the shipping for the exchange. They were receptive, and we'll see how it evens out.

Bottom line: that 150$ you are saving on BGN product is not a saving if you have to exchange the camera.

Markok765 · May 21, 2008

How expensive would UPS express be to ontario?

Vonder · May 21, 2008

I gotta say, I've had the same problem with Nikon equipment from them. Bought an N60. Worked in only manual. Sent it back and it took forever to get the refund. That one was EX. On the other hand, I got a Canon F-1 (old) in BG condition, and well, it's a tank. Everything works perfectly including the meter. I bought my first DSLR from them too, way back, a Canon 10D. The condition was EX+ but the battery was nearly dead. I mentioned that to them and they sent me a free new battery.

Honestly though, they don't test the cameras well - if at all - so I'd go eBay and ask the seller detailed questions if you want a "good one" from the get go. eBay will be cheaper too, in most cases.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 21, 2008

Markok765 said:
How expensive would UPS express be to ontario?

Pretty similar to Montreal, I would suspect. Check UPS.com for a Georgia to Ontario package transit.

Curt · May 22, 2008

gotta say, I've had the same problem with Nikon equipment from them. Bought an N60. Worked in only manual. Sent it back and it took forever to get the refund. That one was EX. On the other hand, I got a Canon F-1 (old) in BG condition, and well, it's a tank. Everything works perfectly including the meter. I bought my first DSLR from them too, way back, a Canon 10D. The condition was EX+ but the battery was nearly dead. I mentioned that to them and they sent me a free new battery.

Honestly though, they don't test the cameras well - if at all - so I'd go eBay and ask the seller detailed questions if you want a "good one" from the get go. eBay will be cheaper too, in most cases.

Gee all of this sounds rather disappointing about KEH, I was looking at some items there and now I wonder what's up with the testing and rating of cameras and lenses. I haven't made a purchase yet, maybe more info is required?

jd callow · May 22, 2008

If you have concerns ask questions. I've bought lenses, camera bodies and odds and ends and I've always been happy.

removed account4 · May 22, 2008

i have bought a handful of things from keh.
no bodies but ...
1 ps, 3 35mm lenses, and 2 LF lenses.
they were all bgn conditon and all arrived
in better condition than expected. some things
looked never used.

but as with everything YMMV

john

Nick Zentena · May 22, 2008

Both my F4s were bargain grade. Like almost everything else I have. Both worked fine. They look used but they must be 20 years old. One advantage of the Fs is they were pro cameras so built tougher. Of course this means they often were used tough.

Shipping isn't that bad IMHO. Unless you buy something like a case in which case forget it. OTOH shipping is high enough it makes sense to order a few things at once rather then a body today a lens next month etc.

Stan160 · May 22, 2008

No complaints about the 2 BGN lenses I've bought from them. I also bought a BGN N90S body. Cosmetically, it is worse than the lenses, with some deep scratches, and coating peeled off the back, but that doesn't bother me and is reasonable for the rating. It is fully functional, and has produced perfect results on the three films I have shot so far.

The MF-26 back that it was supplied with went haywire after 2 films and rendered the camera unusable until I removed the data back batteries. Not worth sending back, so I am just going to leave the batteries out and do without the functionality.

Living in the UK, I would only buy cheaply priced BGN bodies from KEH, on the assumption they are probably going to work fine, but it isn't feasible to return them if there is a fault so I might have to write off the purchase price.

BradS · May 22, 2008

Curt said:
Gee all of this sounds rather disappointing about KEH, I was looking at some items there and now I wonder what's up with the testing and rating of cameras and lenses. I haven't made a purchase yet, maybe more info is required?

I asked them specifically about this and they said that they rate on cosmetics ONLY.

And, again, with one exception, I've not had problems with lenses from KEH - only with Nikon 35mm bodies.

Streetfire · May 22, 2008

I just purchased a Nikon N90s in EX condition for $109.00 from them. It looks brand new, not a scratch on it and everything seems to work fine except that it fails to recognize the DX code. When this roll is done I will check to see if someone purposely defeated the sensor.

Stan160 · May 22, 2008

Streetfire said:
I just purchased a Nikon N90s in EX condition for $109.00 from them. It looks brand new, not a scratch on it and everything seems to work fine except that it fails to recognize the DX code. When this roll is done I will check to see if someone purposely defeated the sensor.

I'm sure you already thought of this, but is the film speed set to DX (the value between 6 and 6400) when you adjust the ISO?

The only reason I ask is that my used N90S arrived with it set to 100 and I assumed the DX coding wasn't working at first. It was only after two rolls of film that I was playing around with the settings and figured it out!

Ian

Streetfire · May 23, 2008

I've never thought of that and didn't see a reference to it in the online manual I found. Many thanks.

Tim

PhotoJim · May 23, 2008

Markok765 said:
Jim, how much wear and tear was on the F4s[#2]?

Is it worth paying $150 more for a EX body?

Some scratches and marks, but no dents. Basically, just evidence that the camera had been well-used (but not abused) in its life.

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