Buying Equipment from KEH

[CBG]

...While not wishing to drag this subject out for very much longer ...

Sure.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Sure.

I leave the last word to Her Majesty The Queen:

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Business/Protection/TradingStandards/tradedescriptionsact1968.htm

Try selling her a duff Leica!

 

[Murray@uptowngallery]

I made one on-line order so far with KEH (RB67 6x4,5 back wanted for an RB67 plain) . Then I sent them a bunch of worried emails about only shippign if it would work with the 'plain' RB.

I think it was a bargain or UG and only $34.

While I didn't get a response, it arrived quickly, was in fine condition - I can't even recall seeing anything wrong with it.

It was described as not having a viewfinder mask - I don't even know what that is, so I didn't miss it.

It is apparently for the RB67 Pro or Pro S as it has the dark slide interlock (I wasn't expecting that feature).

So I was very happy, usually bargain hunting, and have had alot of flaky descriptions on eBay.

Admittedly, I didn't gamble much, but I got something much better than I expected.

 

[jd callow]

David,

The phone is a righteous tool.

Here's how it works -- You call the folks up and say, "I saw that you have a lens that I want -- what can you tell me about it?" Whilst you have them on the phone ask them how they inspect the items. If they can't tell you about the item, although they may need to get back to you, or if they don't inspect the goods in any meaningful way then some of your points may be justified. Until you ask you cannot know, but then again... You have extrapolated KEH's business model from a select group of anecdotes (ignoring those that differ) and have continued on to guess that there is a dearth of consumer protections here in north America. Your reach is impressive.

I would think for you the show stopper would be postage and long delays, and that you'd find it far more convenient to buy and return locally.

It may be that we who buy from KEH are all very stupid. Be that as it may, having bought from them I cannot help but beleive that I have a better understanding of how they do business than you. I will grant you this, anyone who would be wiling to pay as much or more on ebay for a product available on KEH is my kind of ebay shopper.

 

[mark]

So, david has made wide, sweeping, unsubstantiated assuming statements over not seeing a picture on the net. Never dealt with the company. Never spoke to them. Yet still an expert on the situation. Hmmm....

 

[John Koehrer]

(if it had, the rest of the camera would surely look really beaten up), quite possibly a previous owner had hands like a gorilla and forced the wind lever hard against its stop, bending some gear teeth.

Regards,

David

Use a half-a case & you don't have wear and you DO NOT bend gear teeth in a Leica. No matter how ham handed you are.

 

[removed account4]

my favorite is buying something in "bargain" condition ..
getting it in the mail 2 days later, and learning that it
is NEW IN BOX // never used -- sure is a bargain

 

[David H. Bebbington]

So, david has made wide, sweeping, unsubstantiated assuming statements over not seeing a picture on the net. Never dealt with the company. Never spoke to them. Yet still an expert on the situation. Hmmm....

Mark, John and others - I have an opinion about a certain camera dealer, gained from reading others' experience and from viewing the dealer's website, and measuring these impressions against my own expectations and experience from nearly 50 years of camera buying.

My opinion is not the same as yours.

GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jd callow]

Mark, John and others - I have an opinion about a certain camera dealer, gained from reading others' experience and from viewing the dealer's website, and measuring these impressions against my own expectations and experience from nearly 50 years of camera buying.

My opinion is not the same as yours.

GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David,
What are we to get over? That you will have the last word, that we are expected to ignore the holes in your logic? To be honest David your whole line of argument is insulting. You insinuate that we who shop KEH lack your sophistication, you take the most slanted view of the situation and then use it to take swipes at all things not bebbington. I apologize for being rude, but you need to get over your self. It isn't your opinion that motivates my responce.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have brought lenses and cameras from KEH. I look on the website first and then call them. They get the equipment from off the shelf and describe it to me. One Hasselblad lenses I had questions about, the sales person sent out to be checked and apolagized that it would take a day to get the answer! When I called the next day and the lenses was checked out I brought the EX lens. Bel Air Camera and Samys both said that then lens was in mint condition.

Steve

 

[David H. Bebbington]

David,
What are we to get over? That you will have the last word, that we are expected to ignore the holes in your logic? To be honest David your whole line of argument is insulting. You insinuate that we who shop KEH lack your sophistication, you take the most slanted view of the situation and then use it to take swipes at all things not bebbington. I apologize for being rude, but you need to get over your self. It isn't your opinion that motivates my responce.

KEH appeals to you as a supplier, it doesn't appeal to me. What the HELL else is there to say?

 

[jd callow]

That wasn't what you were saying nor was it what we or at least I was commenting on, but I'm more than willing to let the subject die and have this thread return to the regularly scheduled KEH Lovefest.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Just for information - this
Dead Link Removed
is an example of a company which is selling second-hand cameras, including Leicas, on the web and through its presentation inspires a little more confidence in me, cynical old bastard that I am, than you-know-who.

Regards to all!

David

 

[Eric Rose]

Just for information - this
Dead Link Removed
is an example of a company which is selling second-hand cameras, including Leicas, on the web and through its presentation inspires a little more confidence in me, cynical old bastard that I am, than you-know-who.

A very little confidence IMHO. Half their website doesn't work and they can't even be bothered to put up dummy pages such as under construction etc. Looks to me like someone working out of their garage. BTW do you have some connection with these people?

 

[mark]

Just for information - this
Dead Link Removed
is an example of a company which is selling second-hand cameras, including Leicas, on the web and through its presentation inspires a little more confidence in me, cynical old bastard that I am, than you-know-who.

Regards to all!

David

You are kidding right? As was pointed out most of their pages are dead links, but they say, themselves, that keeping their website up is not very important to them, since their web designer is on more important projects. No delivery details, no rating scale or even an explanation of what their "Near Mint" condition might possibly mean.

Clearly they have a very low opinion of their web business.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

A very little confidence IMHO. Half their website doesn't work and they can't even be bothered to put up dummy pages such as under construction etc. Looks to me like someone working out of their garage. BTW do you have some connection with these people?

I have no financial interest in any part of the photographic trade and do not know these people at all. All I can say is that a description such as the following:
Camera has been fully checked and tested, therefore is sold fully working. Shutter speeds are working correctly. Shutter blinds are in excellent shape. Rangefinder shows very good contrast. Viewfinder is clear. Lens optics are clear.
Overall, camera is nice clean condition, [/I]
which as I explained is legally binding in the UK, and accompanied by four clear photographs, would be more than good enough for me to part with my money if I were looking for another Leica.

Yes, the website is under construction, yes, it's obviously a small company. no, this does not bother me at all. No, there are no "delivery details" either - at a wild guess, I imagine the company would use the Royal Mail (British post office) or mayve another courier, after first encasing the camera in bubble wrap and a box - quite possibly, they would use Scotch tape to secure the packaging. Just how many "delivery details" do you need? However, for the doubters among you, the choice is clear - stick with KEH!

 

[ricksplace]

"Interesting" thread. I for one appreciate comments made by posters here regarding reputable dealers. I have never dealt with KEH. I have no opinion of them. Based on the general consensus of posters here, I would have no hesitation in dealing with them in the future. We should count our blessings that most of us can choose which dealer and in which country we wish to shop. There are many countries in the world where those choices are not available.

A few years ago, I asked on this site for a suggestion regarding a reputable dealer in Canada for a full-through CLA for my Rolleiflex. I chose a recommended dealer and received excellent service at a reasonable price. Thanks folks.

 

[zenrhino]

Thought I'd chime in here. I just yesterday got a non-metered prism from KEH along with a 100mm lens for my Bronica GS-1. Both were listed in BGN condition, but I can't figure out why. They're both in gorgeous shape with only the most minor of scuffs on either of them. I'll quite happily buy from them again.

 

[jmcd]

I am still awaiting credit for the return of the EX Leica that had a stiff wind, loose covering on the front of the camera, and overlapping frames due to a worn wind mechanism, this even though I have been told several times, "It has been taken care of." When items I have bought from KEH arrived in fine condition, the entire transaction was so smooth, and shipping was fast and packing excellent.

But I do have a much more tempered view of the company as a "machine" after dealing with them by phone trying to get this return processed, with verification. I am sure it will work out fine in the end, but it is apparently more of a priority to me, as I have already paid my credit card bill, than it has been for them.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've bought a number of items from KEH in the past and like most customers have found their grading system to be quite conservative and their prices reasonable. I recommend them highly.

 

[jmcd]

As I hope I have made clear, I have also bought many items over the past 18 years from KEH, and have found the items usually graded to my advantage. Working with them on returning this item has been, to my surprise, like working with a different company.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Just to clarify, I wasn't replying to JMCD's post, but just offering my experience in response to JDC's original post at the top of the thread.

 

[aldevo]

Post-mortem on this for me;100% vindicating my earlier comments.

I just received a Fujica ST-801 SLR and Fujinon 35mm f/2.8 from KEH.

- Both had far better exterior cosmetic condition than advertised
- Both had GROSS mechanical defects.

The prism on the SLR was mis-aligned (couldn't focuse), and (wait for it) upon opening the camera back there was *no* take up spool! Both the hot shoe and the x-sync did not work. (The meter was way off, too, but I expect that in a 30 year old camera). Total time invested in ascertaining all those problems - about 90 seconds and I never so much as loaded film in the camera.

The Fujinon lens had a broken aperture blade. I knew that as soon as I picked up the lens and heard it rattling around. Time expended? One second. Perhaps, two....

The kicker? Both items had been meticulously cleaned by their techs. Absolultely spotless. And both had a sticker with the name of the camera tech who inspected the items (who they assured me was no longer with the company....sure)

So I called KEH and, naturally, they are accepting a return. But my frustration (4 consecutive orders returned) continues...

It remains very evident to me that relatively inexpensive items for sale are not given even a cursory inspection. Not one of the flaws I described above would require a camera tech or even a particularly experienced camera user.

 

[Markok765]

KEH.com BGN question.

Have you guys bought any BGN bodies from KEH? How is the condition? Any hits, brassing, lots of use, ect? Is EX much better, and how much better?

 

[Jeremy]

Yes. Good. Depends on the item, call and ask them. It's better or it wouldn't be EXC; how much better? Call and ask them.

Read through these threads where this has been hashed out before:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Basically, they are very conservatice in their ratings and if you don't like the item you have a no-risk (other than shipping costs) option to return it.