Buying an Enlarger

WGibsonPhotography · May 22, 2009

I'm considering buying a Beseler Printmaker 67 enlarger from Freestyle. I think I have everything I need in my shopping cart, but I want to run it buy the folks here to make sure I'm buying the right stuff. I'd hate to spend this much money and buy something that doesnt fit

In my shopping cart right now:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/67670-Beseler-Printmaker-67-Condenser-Enlarger

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/8095-Beseler-Jam-Nut

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/13315-Delta-Bes-Board-39mm-for-Beseler-Printmaker-35-or-67

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/6737-Beseler-35MM-Negative-Carrier-for-Printmaker-35-67-enlargers

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/110248-Meopta-Anaret-S-80mm-f-4.5-enlarging-lens

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/261311-Premier-11x14-2-Blade-Easel

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/4731099-Deluxe-Grain-Focuser

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/7282000-Paterson-Digital-Timer

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/12011...ping-Trays-Accommodates-12x16-inch-print-size

I do have two questions. Does the enlarger come with the chassis and baseboard? Should I get the 80mm lens or the 50mm lens? I know the 80mm says appropriate for 6x6 negatives, but will it work for 35mm as well (all I shoot right now is 35mm, but I want to upgrade to medium format eventually). I read somewhere, maybe on APUG, about using an 80mm lens for 35mm because the corners were soft. MAybe I'm just tired and imagining things :/ Buying the 50mm instead would save me a little money

dougjgreen · May 22, 2009

Before you drop $500+ on an enlarger and related items, you probably should consider that you could almost certainly find a perfectly nice used outfit for a tiny fraction of that amount. Digital has really put most film darkroom gear into the obsolete category (along with film cameras). I've seen Beseler 23C enlargers (which are a step up from the model you are considering) for essentially the cost to ship them. And top quality used enlarging lenses like El Nikkors, going for prices like $20-25 (and at that price, the obvious answer would be, get BOTH, an 80mm and a 50mm so you could use the one best oriented to each film format).

Here's a couple of examples:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Beseler-23CIII-...9955QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beseler-23C-II-...2262QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsupported

Konical · May 22, 2009

Good Evening, WGibson,

Are you sure you need to buy new stuff? Lots of darkroom stuff is either being given away or is available at extremely low prices nowadays, including enlargers which are lots more versatile than the Printmaker 67.

There's nothing wrong with using a 75 or 80mm lens with 35mm, but it will limit your maximum print size. A high-quality enlarging lens is the one item worth paying a little more for, but today's market favors the buyer even there.

Konical

WGibsonPhotography · May 22, 2009

I have considered Ebay, but i'm a bit cautious about buying used stuff, especially when it's as expensive as an enlarger, unless the person selling it knows what he's selling.

I have a few on my watch list on ebay right now. The one I'm most interested in right now is

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-BESELER-23...2|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

If the stuff I posted in my first post is the stuff I need (I dont have the wrong lens board and the lens fits) I'm happy buying that stuff on ebay. I'm all for saving money

bdial · May 22, 2009

This should do it, with the possible exception of a set of Multigrade filters, and a filter holder, which looks to com ala carte like everything else.

The enlarger you linked to would come with the baseboard. The chassis is the enlarger.

However, you can do WAY better for the money by getting a second-hand unit. Even if you really want the enlarger new, superior lenses are available for around 30 USD, somewhat more if you get them from a dealer.
Except for enlargers coming from a school setting, a used one isn't likely to have excessive wear.

As for the focal length, if a MF camera is somwhere in the unknown future, I'd go for a 50, then get the 80 or whatever, when you need it. Also an 80 is only really suitable for 6x6 or 6x4.5, if you were to end up with a 6x7 the 80 would be short.

As for the ebay unit, bluntly put, "rare" and "Beseler 23C" don't belong in the same sentence. I don't think there is anything terribly meaningful that it's some sort of special edition. They are great enlargers though, lot's of following here, and it would be a better unit than the Printmaker.
If you're unsure about ebay, check out Craigslist and find something within driving distance, that you can actually look at.

MattKing · May 22, 2009

What Doug said. Although, I applaud you for considering buying new, because it does support the industry.

What is your location (it doesn't show on your profile)?

If you were in my area, I could probably help you find something on Craigslist for nearly free.

If you are going to buy something new, I'd suggest saving up for something with more flexibility and capabilities.

If I could suggest an even better investment - subscribe to APUG and post a wanted ad in the classifieds.

Matt

Further to your second post, the eBay listing you linked to does appear to be a much better value.

WGibsonPhotography · May 22, 2009

Matt, I'm in Alabama, just a tad too far from Brittish Columbia for you to help me get something on Craigslist. Thanks for the offer, though.

Bdial, I thought the chassis was the thing the enlarger went up and down on. I dont know when I will upgrade to medium format, so I might be better off with the 50mm.

I'm really considering one of the 23C enlargers now. I was thinking if I knew for sure everything in my freestlye shopping cart was what I needed, I would find what I could on ebay and get the rest from freestyle.

I really appreciate everyone's quick and helpful input. Maybe I'll have my own working darkroom pretty soon

nickandre · May 22, 2009

NOOOOOOO! FYI I got my functioning 6x6 dichro enlarger off ebay shipped for $80.

dougjgreen · May 23, 2009

bdial said:
This should do it, with the possible exception of a set of Multigrade filters, and a filter holder, which looks to com ala carte like everything else.

The enlarger you linked to would come with the baseboard. The chassis is the enlarger.

However, you can do WAY better for the money by getting a second-hand unit. Even if you really want the enlarger new, superior lenses are available for around 30 USD, somewhat more if you get them from a dealer.
Except for enlargers coming from a school setting, a used one isn't likely to have excessive wear.

As for the focal length, if a MF camera is somwhere in the unknown future, I'd go for a 50, then get the 80 or whatever, when you need it. Also an 80 is only really suitable for 6x6 or 6x4.5, if you were to end up with a 6x7 the 80 would be short.

As for the ebay unit, bluntly put, "rare" and "Beseler 23C" don't belong in the same sentence. I don't think there is anything terribly meaningful that it's some sort of special edition. They are great enlargers though, lot's of following here, and it would be a better unit than the Printmaker.
If you're unsure about ebay, check out Craigslist and find something within driving distance, that you can actually look at.

Many, if not most, 80mm enlarging lenses will cover 6x7. El Nikkor's spec sheets stated that theirs did. They also made a 75mm lens that only covered 6x6.

Dennis S · May 23, 2009

I see on you shopping list you have NO PAPER. You better get that too cause you will be wanting to try your new TOYS. And as MATTKING suggested " Shop around" People are throwing enlargers into the dumpsters! A used one just means it is set up properly. Craigslist is availible in your neck of the woods anyway. Don't worry when you have it set up you will spend alot of your $$ on film, paper, chemicals, more film. There are so many different variables in paper you could never try ALL different kinds and brands. Especially when you are just starting out it is confusing but research is the key. Happy Printing anyways (I picked up a fully loaded, nearly new Beseler 23C II for $ 20 )

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

dances_w_clouds said:
I see on you shopping list you have NO PAPER. You better get that too cause you will be wanting to try your new TOYS. And as MATTKING suggested " Shop around" People are throwing enlargers into the dumpsters! A used one just means it is set up properly. Craigslist is availible in your neck of the woods anyway. Don't worry when you have it set up you will spend alot of your $$ on film, paper, chemicals, more film. There are so many different variables in paper you could never try ALL different kinds and brands. Especially when you are just starting out it is confusing but research is the key. Happy Printing anyways (I picked up a fully loaded Beseler 23C II for $ 20 )

I have some slavich unibrom paper coming from Freestyle. I've been using that paper (developed in Dektol) with the enlargers at my school, and I'm very happy with it.

dougjgreen · May 23, 2009

One other thing - I see that you have on your list a digital enlarging timer for $170. Don't bother. Get a big dial Gralab 300 analog timer. Freestyle has them for $140, but you can easily get a used one for under $50. I happen to have a spare if you're interested, from when I bought out someone else's darkroom gear. They are completely accurate and reliable. They have not been improved upon in 50 years.

Dennis S · May 23, 2009

WGibsonPhotography said:
I have some slavich unibrom paper coming from Freestyle. I've been using that paper (developed in Dektol) with the enlargers at my school, and I'm very happy with it.

If your like me your never completely happy with just 1 type of paper. When I was just starting out I swore I would never use anything other than AGFA but THEY CHANGED I didn't.

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · May 23, 2009

As someone with 4 secondhand enlargers in his parent's spare room, and only one I've ever used successfully, I can say sometimes buying new isn't such a bad idea. Buying second hand you do, of course, get a used piece of machinery. And when the condenser lenses crack during shipping or there's bits missing, it can drive you bonkers. There's a lot of good deals out there on the secondhand market, but they aren't all good deals. Shop around, but if you have the money to spend on a new unit it's not a dumb thing to invest in.

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

dougjgreen said:
One other thing - I see that you have on your list a digital enlarging timer for $170. Don't bother. Get a big dial Gralab 300 analog timer. Freestyle has them for $140, but you can easily get a used one for under $50. I happen to have a spare if you're interested, from when I bought out someone else's darkroom gear. They are completely accurate and reliable. They have not been improved upon in 50 years.

I've never used an analog timer with an enlarger. How difficult is it to use with an enlarger? Does it plug in to the enlarger and shut it off automatically like a digital one or do I just have to watch the clock and turn the enlarger off manually? If that's the case, I think I'd rather just have a digital one. I'm not a precision freak, and my exposures on Slavic paper have been in the 70 second range so far, so a second too long or short wouldnt make much of a difference. My fear is I'd forget how long the paper has been exposed (and I am prone to stupid mistakes like that)

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

dances_w_clouds said:
If your like me your never completely happy with just 1 type of paper. When I was just starting out I swore I would never use anything other than AGFA but THEY CHANGED I didn't.

I may branch out and try a few other papers eventually, but I'll stick with Slavich right now

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · May 23, 2009

WGibsonPhotography said:
I've never used an analog timer with an enlarger. How difficult is it to use with an enlarger? Does it plug in to the enlarger and shut it off automatically like a digital one or do I just have to watch the clock and turn the enlarger off manually? If that's the case, I think I'd rather just have a digital one. I'm not a precision freak, and my exposures on Slavic paper have been in the 70 second range so far, so a second too long or short wouldnt make much of a difference. My fear is I'd forget how long the paper has been exposed (and I am prone to stupid mistakes like that)

It turns it off automatically. Think an old analog egg timer - turn the dial to the time you want, say 25 seconds, press the button, the dial turns and counts down. When it gets back to 0, it turns the enlarger off. I've used both analog and digital and I sort of prefer the analog, a dial is quicker to change times instead of button mashing.

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

Fleath said:
As someone with 4 secondhand enlargers in his parent's spare room, and only one I've ever used successfully, I can say sometimes buying new isn't such a bad idea. Buying second hand you do, of course, get a used piece of machinery. And when the condenser lenses crack during shipping or there's bits missing, it can drive you bonkers. There's a lot of good deals out there on the secondhand market, but they aren't all good deals. Shop around, but if you have the money to spend on a new unit it's not a dumb thing to invest in.

that's what I was thinking when I considered buying a new one. I guess it doesnt matter now since I just bought a 23C for $249 plus $65 shipping. That's actually cheaper than the Printmaker 67 without shipping. As long as everything works, I've came out pretty good, I think. If not, I guess I'll have to invest a little of the money I saved buying spare parts on ebay (which is what I wanted to avoid by going new )

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

Fleath said:
It turns it off automatically. Think an old analog egg timer - turn the dial to the time you want, say 25 seconds, press the button, the dial turns and counts down. When it gets back to 0, it turns the enlarger off. I've used both analog and digital and I sort of prefer the analog, a dial is quicker to change times instead of button mashing.

That's cool. i'll have to look in to that

dougjgreen · May 23, 2009

The Gralab 300 is THE standard enlarging timer for at least 40+ years. It couldn't be any easier to use. It has 2 switched outlets, on for the safelights, and one for the enlarger. You set the time and switch it on, and it lights the enlarger lamp and toggles the safelights off. When the time expires, it automatically turns the enlarger off, and the safelights back on.

BTW, I decided I don't want to sell my 2nd one anyways - I just remembered that it's really convenient to keep one working the enlarger/safelight, and a 2nd one controlling my color processor when I do color printing, without connecting and disconnecting the one on the enlarger. Shows how long it's been since I did any color printing. But if you did go the Gralab route, there's a bunch of them on ebay that you could pick up for $40-50.

dougjgreen · May 23, 2009

I see you just bought the 23C outfit that I recommended in the first reply on this thread. Congrats, it looks like a good deal from a knowledgeable and reputable seller.

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

dougjgreen said:
The Gralab 300 is THE standard enlarging timer for at least 40+ years. It couldn't be any easier to use. It has 2 switched outlets, on for the safelights, and one for the enlarger. You set the time and switch it on, and it lights the enlarger lamp and toggles the safelights off. When the time expires, it automatically turns the enlarger off, and the safelights back on.

BTW, I decided I don't want to sell my 2nd one anyways - I just remembered that it's really convenient to keep one working the enlarger/safelight, and a 2nd one controlling my color processor when I do color printing, without connecting and disconnecting the one on the enlarger. Shows how long it's been since I did any color printing. But if you did go the Gralab route, there's a bunch of them on ebay that you could pick up for $40-50.

That answers the question I just sent you via PM

WGibsonPhotography · May 23, 2009

dougjgreen said:
I see you just bought the 23C outfit that I recommended in the first reply on this thread. Congrats, it looks like a good deal from a knowledgeable and reputable seller.

Thanks for the congrats. I'm sure it'll work perfectly. The seller seems to be professional and knowledgable

dougjgreen · May 23, 2009

The best thing about that setup is, it comes with a Dichro head. I'm jealous. My 23CII just has a condenser head, and I used color filter inserts for both color and polycontrast B&W paper.

MattKing · May 23, 2009

WGibsonPhotography said:
Thanks for the congrats. I'm sure it'll work perfectly. The seller seems to be professional and knowledgable

Congratulations from here as well.

Rob (Ebay "roblun") sells a lot of Beseler equipment on eBay and I've bought from him in the past. In all but one case, the transaction was trouble free, and he resolved the one problem I encountered quickly and fairly.

Matt

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