Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - Colour Film Used and Special Effects?

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Approx. point-75

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cmacd123

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yes, it is an entire other world of things that could be done. Since in those days they used a "Master Positive" some of that could have been baked in at that stage. (on a high budget picture, they could have even used a step Printer to change the points on a frame by Frame basis if needed, although that is getting into an "effects" shot and much more expensive to get done. Normally only used when they had to combine several shots into one image.) Cinematographers often WANT to sit in on the color Timing stage of the process.
 

Kino

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Charles,

Yeah, come to think of it, they probably would have used a step printer over a rotary contact printer; much better image without all the slip.

Good point.
 

MattKing

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OK, I've had a beer, so I'll give it the old college try...

The 4 stops over gambit was not just for any particular shot, but for the entire film. As he states, he shot the film essentially at ASA 12 and processed the negative normal. The lab then had to really ramp up the printer lights to print through the dense negative and a byproduct of this was a desaturated image overall.

As posted above, Hall shot the "color transformation" scene above at golden hour, where the sunlight passes through the thickest part of the atmosphere (in relation to the shooting location), which naturally give the light a golden color. The raking light, along with the pastel color scheme of the sets, produces a near Sepia look naturally, but when the camera position pans to take in the blue mountains, color naturally becomes more emphasized (as pointed out in the interview in post#16).

Now I am sure this natural effect was augmented by the color timer.

The Timer would have probably take the shot, established the light values for the head of the shot in RGB color points to mimic Sepia, wound down to the end of the shot and established the tail of the shot in other RGB color points to what look was desired and then did a color balance ramp from the first RGB values to the end RGB values.

This undoubtedly cost the timer a good portion of their hair and several bottles of antacid, not to mention at least a week of intense testing. It would not have been a linear, cross-fade/ramp between two values, but more of a "modulation arc" between portions of the image to make it look correct to the viewer. A green horse would not work, right?

I do this a lot with the B&W films I time, but I am only dealing with unity gain values of RGB, because... well it's B&W and equal values of RGB equal white light in varying densities.

I don't know what other timers call that, but I call it "ramping".

Just as a still photographer has to do, I have to fit the desired image density range into the print stock by manipulating the density to fit the gamma response, only my targets constantly change.

I cannot tell you how many ramps I had to do when I timed a show print of "A Touch of Evil" by Orson Welles and cinematographer Russell Metty. Blazing lights into pitch black rooms... it was fun.

Motion picture printers (most) use a system called the Peterson Light Valve system of 0 to 50 points of light in each Red, Green and Blue Channel. Like a color enlarger, the tungsten lamp is split into RGB via dichroic mirrors BUT each value has a light valve that can vary exposure in these 50 point values.

Each printer point is 0.025 transmitted lux and there are 12 points to a stop, so you have about 4 stops of independent RGB you can manipulate. (Think of this as turning the dial on a dichroic head, only making the change at 3/10,000ths of a second.)

The printer also utilizes "trims" which is another light valve that intercepts the light as it exits the lamp house before the light is split into RGB by the dichroic mirrors and has the ability to modulate the overall light by 24 points. (1 trim = 1 point) This is more of an overall adjustment that allows the timer to move the entire "envelope" of the 1-50 points within the 24 point range to match dissimilar film stock emulsion batches.

(There are also provisions for ND and additional Wratten filters to make minute adjustments per channel, but we are getting off into the weeds...)

On the BHP Panel printers we use, I am limited to changing point values no sooner than every 4 frames to allow the light valves to recycle and get ready to change. This may not sound very fast, but remember that the film is speeding past a 4 perf high film gate at 100 feet per minute.

So long story short, in my opinion, this was a combination of natural light with judicious timing corrections deftly applied.

With the ability to radically change RGB values, 4 stops up and down in each channel, and the initially over-exposed, thus de saturated image, all of your questions could (possibly) be answered.

Just one beer? :whistling:
 

snusmumriken

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Thanks all. You have covered the subject of this colour film very well but can I ask about what seemed to be an almost monochromatic, slightly sepia look for the first few minutes

Those sepia fades at beginning and end of the film were definitely in the original as released in cinemas, so this was old-school trickery, not digital.

Fades were an established part of the bag of tricks. So I imagine they simply faded into a monochrome copy of the footage that had been bleached and toned.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Short 40-minute documentary on the making of the film, narrated by the director George Roy Hill.

 
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pentaxuser

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Thanks very much Alex. Only one thing to say about this video link you provided - Brilliant! It covers all my questions and thanks to others as well such as Kino and cmacd123 I have a bit more knowledge of how the colours can be bled away

Incidentally just after this film was on BBC TV there was a re-run of Blazing Saddles which was Technicolor so almost instantly I could compare the two colour palettes. While Technicolor was probably the best choice for the kind of film that Blazing Saddles is and there's a place for both, Eastmancolor with its more muted and natural look has the edge for me.

Thanks all for a making my thread into a very worthwhile experience

pentaxuser
 

MattKing

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Thanks very much Alex. Only one thing to say about this video link you provided - Brilliant! It covers all my questions and thanks to others as well such as Kino and cmacd123 I have a bit more knowledge of how the colours can be bled away

Incidentally just after this film was on BBC TV there was a re-run of Blazing Saddles which was Technicolor so almost instantly I could compare the two colour palettes. While Technicolor was probably the best choice for the kind of film that Blazing Saddles is and there's a place for both, Eastmancolor with its more muted and natural look has the edge for me.

Thanks all for a making my thread into a very worthwhile experience

pentaxuser

I think we can all agree that there is nothing "muted" about "Blazing Saddles"!
 

Alex Benjamin

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pentaxuser

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Well as we may be finished with the thread in terms of a satisfactory discussion about how Butch Cassidy was done then I hope I am not diverting it further by saying that while Blazing Saddles seems dated to an extent after nearly 50 years, it does have an amazing number of points of "political humour" in the broadest sense of the phrase built into it

It was worth a second look for me

pentaxuser
 
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