Bulk Loading Question

Ariston · Jun 8, 2019

I have recently started bulk loading 35mm B&W. I had been taping the film to the cartridge spool, but I have a hard time feeling the resistance at the end and usually pull it loose and have to unload the film from the camera spool in a dark bag.

The cartridges I bought have a slit in the middle. Should I try to cut the film on both sides to fit in the middle of this slit, or will it still just slide out? See the pic below...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for how to minimize the lost shots next to the spool? I don't think I can line up and start the spool in total darkness, so I lose those first few shots every time.

AgX · Jun 8, 2019

Go with the tape around the spindle, by this taping the emulsion side too.

Ariston · Jun 8, 2019

AgX said:
Go with the tape around the spindle, by this taping the emulsion side too.

Well, that's common sense... which I evidently don't have, because I did not do that. Thank you!

Dennis S · Jun 8, 2019

I usually use 2 strips 2" of tape that cover the sprocket holes to secure it to the spool. In the winder I make sure the tape is attached by manually tighten the tape on a few inches of the film and secures to the emulsion side . Have had very few that were not bound properly and released in the camera.

jim appleyard · Jun 8, 2019

Lots of good info on YT:

MattKing · Jun 8, 2019

Ariston said:
I have recently started bulk loading 35mm B&W. I had been taping the film to the cartridge spool, but I have a hard time feeling the resistance at the end and usually pull it loose and have to unload the film from the camera spool in a dark bag.

The cartridges I bought have a slit in the middle. Should I try to cut the film on both sides to fit in the middle of this slit, or will it still just slide out? See the pic below...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for how to minimize the lost shots next to the spool? I don't think I can line up and start the spool in total darkness, so I lose those first few shots every time.

View attachment 224881

I take about 7 cm of medium width masking tape, put 2.5 cm on the emulsion side of the film, wrap the tape around the spool and put the remaining 2.5 cm on the back of the film.
For my friends in the USA, 2.5 cm is about an inch .
Unless you are using one of the relatively rare cameras that winds the film all the way out at the beginning and then back into the cassette as you expose each shot (such as the Canon Rebel 2000), the shots you lose are at the end of the roll.
I am assuming you are using something like a Watson loader. You can minimize the loss to about one~two frames of film if you load the spool and put on the outside and end of the cassette near the film opening, then turn off the light before you pull the cassette over to where the crank is.
Or, even more practically, you just learn to add two extra frames and stop shooting according to the counter, not when you feel the film reach the end.

mshchem · Jun 8, 2019

Ariston said:
I have recently started bulk loading 35mm B&W. I had been taping the film to the cartridge spool, but I have a hard time feeling the resistance at the end and usually pull it loose and have to unload the film from the camera spool in a dark bag.

The cartridges I bought have a slit in the middle. Should I try to cut the film on both sides to fit in the middle of this slit, or will it still just slide out? See the pic below...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for how to minimize the lost shots next to the spool? I don't think I can line up and start the spool in total darkness, so I lose those first few shots every time.

View attachment 224881

Pretty much impossible to save money bulk loading Kodak, bulk film is about same as 36 exposure cassettes. Good tape, like what is used to tape leader cards for minilabs works,,or a good 3M tape, like the paper medical tape. Back in the early Leica days you loaded your own cassettes from cine stock. Leica sold a metal template that guided you on cutting the thin long leader and the center tab that fit into a slit on the spool. Your spool still has a slit, even though no one knows why it's there.
By far the easiest is to do as shown in the video attached in this thread.

It used to be cheaper and you had dozens of manufacturers to choose from. Not so much anymore. The old loaders were called "Penny-a-Frame" because that's about what it cost to spool black and white negative film.

Ariston · Jun 8, 2019

My mistake was not taping both sides of the film, it seems. In order to learn, my first roll was Ultrafine Xtreme 400, which was pretty cheap. However, my results were very flat. I could not pull out any more contrast in the scan. I used HC110 dilution F. Does anyone know if one of the stronger dilutions of HC110 will give more contrasty results? The pic is below, with the best contrast I could give it. I have kept notes for when I want no contrast, but that is not what I was hoping for in this first test roll.

cmacd123 · Jun 8, 2019

On the old AP cassettes, I have found that spools saved from Kodak Factory pack film will fit and they have no slots so give a larger surface to tape to. But yes, tape goies on both sides of the film. Latest empties I got from Ultrafine online are a different design and don't like the Kodak spools however

long time ago there were templates and even punch tools to trim film to fit the slots on various spools. some spools want 2 holes other want one..Ansco used a plain slot BUT also taped the film.

mshchem · Jun 8, 2019

Ariston said:
My mistake was not taping both sides of the film, it seems. In order to learn, my first roll was Ultrafine Xtreme 400, which was pretty cheap. However, my results were very flat. I could not pull out any more contrast in the scan. I used HC110 dilution F. Does anyone know if one of the stronger dilutions of HC110 will give more contrasty results? The pic is below, with the best contrast I could give it. I have kept notes for when I want no contrast, but that is not what I was hoping for in this first test roll.

View attachment 224893

When I used HC-110, I used dilution B and replenished after each session. Stored the working solution in a 1 gallon amber glass bottle. If you use it weekly and keep it replenished it will last for years properly cared for. Great developer, should yield beautiful negatives. Don't use high dilutions with Rotary-Tube Processors. Not enough activity. For Jobo I would use dilution B one shot. Or XTOL or D-76 straight, no dilution.

Ariston · Jun 8, 2019

mshchem said:
When I used HC-110, I used dilution B and replenished after each session. Stored the working solution in a 1 gallon amber glass bottle. If you use it weekly and keep it replenished it will last for years properly cared for. Great developer, should yield beautiful negatives. Don't use high dilutions with Rotary-Tube Processors. Not enough activity. For Jobo I would use dilution B one shot. Or XTOL or D-76 straight, no dilution.

I will give dilution B a shot. I use the concentrate and discard after each use, because I doubt I can use it all before it expires. Dilution F is 1+79, which is insane and will develop tons of rolls, even with all fresh mixtures.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2019

Ariston said:
I will give dilution B a shot. I use the concentrate and discard after each use, because I doubt I can use it all before it expires. Dilution F is 1+79, which is insane and will develop tons of rolls, even with all fresh mixtures.

Are you using at least 480 ml of working solution F in your tank? If not, you are probably seeing the results of developer exhaustion - Kodak recommends a minimum of 6 ml of syrup per roll.
Where did you get times for dilution F? If times come from the Massive Development chart, they aren't particularly dependable.
I used HC-110 for years - both one shot and replenished. I ended up liking Jason Brunner's 1 + 49 dilution, which is effectively the same as dilution E.
Details of Jason's method can be found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/hc110-made-simple.220/

Agulliver · Jun 9, 2019

I've found that with regular adhesive tape (Sellotape, Scotch tape) there is a chance that the film can be pulled off the spool especially by cameras with motor drive.

I've taken to using 16mm film splicing tape, as it seems much stronger but isn't too wide.

koraks · Jun 9, 2019

MattKing said:
I take about 7 cm of medium width masking tape, put 2.5 cm on the emulsion side of the film, wrap the tape around the spool and put the remaining 2.5 cm on the back of the film.

Exactly this. I use plain and simple masking tape, the kind that is used for painting around the house. Works perfectly in all my cameras, manual and motor wind alike.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2019

koraks said:
Exactly this. I use plain and simple masking tape, the kind that is used for painting around the house. Works perfectly in all my cameras, manual and motor wind alike.

FWIW, the "painter's tape" comes in a number of forms. The (usually) beige coloured stuff is designed to stick and stay stuck, and is perfect for bulk loaded film. Some of the coloured stuff (usually green or blue) is designed to stick very lightly and release easily, and is not suited for bulk loaded film.

Ariston · Jun 9, 2019

I just loaded another roll using electrical tape on both sides of the film. We'll see if that works.

Matt, I will try that dikution next. I'm not sure where Ultrafine falls in the times he gave, though. I'll just start in the middle and work from there.

It occurs to me that there was no date on the film Ultrafine sent me. It'd better not be a bum roll of 100 feet.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2019

Rumour has it that the Ultrafine Extreme 400 is the same film as Kentmere 400. This chart will give you some data for comparison: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1920/product/430/
Looks to me like HP5+ times would be a great comparable.

Paul Howell · Jun 9, 2019

I believe Ultrafine to be repackaged Kentmere, I suspect that Photo Warehouse cuts and loads from large rolls as they also sell Ultafine 100 and 400 in 120. In terms of bulk film, hard to beat their price. The 100 is really very nice, the 400 somewhat on the grainy side, reminds me of 70's vintage TriX. I just finished my last self loaded roll of 400, found that I really screwed up, put too much film in the can, what was left of the bulk roll, maybe 40 exposures, when the camera's drive rewound the film there was not enough room for the leader, I got the roll mixed up with unexposed roll and doubled exposed the entire roll.

guangong · Jun 9, 2019

I bulk load film for Minox and Minolta 16. Also sometimes load Leitz and Zeiss cassettes,for two reasons. Mainly because subminiature uses so little film, to keep film from sitting for long time in bulk loader. Also, these two cassettes are designed so that film is never abraded by cassette. I understand that Nikon also made excellent reloadable cassettes.
For 35mm just use white artist masking tape. Never a problem. Something like electrical tape may become too gooey.

cmacd123 · Jun 9, 2019

Paul Howell said:
I believe Ultrafine to be repackaged Kentmere, I suspect that Photo Warehouse cuts and loads from large rolls as they also sell Ultafine 100 and 400 in 120. .

Since the Boxes are cut with the same shape flaps as Ilford, the cans on 35mm are the same as ilford, the foil pack on the 120 and the backing paper are the same as ilford, the middle digits of the bar code on the 35mm casettes are the same as Kentmere, even the font beside the bar code is the same.... My guess is that they are just ordering it from the UK ready to sell.

Paul Howell · Jun 9, 2019

Wonder why no none else is selling in 120 size.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2019

Which Ultrafine film? There are two.

Paul Howell · Jun 9, 2019

The current is 100 and 400 extreme in 35 and 120, along with what they say is a 400 T grain film. Photo warehouse also repackages roll ends, like Double X and copy film.

mklw1954 · Jun 10, 2019

A 3" long piece of 1/2" wide 3M masking tape, around the spool and then equal remaining amounts on each side of the film, and never had a problem bulk loading hundreds of rolls this way.

Bulk loading 135 Ultrafine Xtreme 100 and 400 is very economical and they are excellent films.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 10, 2019

I use 1/2 inch wide Scotch tape from my teacher dispenser. Both sides of film get taped to the spool. This works quick for me as I have 30 rolls at a time to do.

Bulk Loading Question

Ariston

AgX

Ariston

Dennis S

jim appleyard

MattKing

Moderator

mshchem

Ariston

cmacd123

mshchem

Ariston

MattKing

Moderator

Agulliver

koraks

Moderator

MattKing

Moderator

Ariston

MattKing

Moderator

Paul Howell

guangong

cmacd123

Paul Howell

MattKing

Moderator

Paul Howell

mklw1954

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Bulk Loading Question

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency