Bulk loading issue film crinkling

Agulliver · Aug 21, 2019

I'm using a Daylight/Lloyds type bulk loader today, one I've used several times before. I have a 100 foot roll of Fomapan 200 in there bought a few months ago and from which I had previously rolled four cassettes without issue. Today every time I try the film is crinkling at the edge and getting very difficult to turn - indeed I have damaged the winding key.

I am using a plastic cassette which I've also used before, albeit possibly only once. It's nearly new. I'm also using 16mm splicing tape to attach the film to the spool - again my usual modus operandi.

Has anyone experienced this? Is there something wrong that I can fix? Photo attached to show what's happening.

AgX · Aug 21, 2019

The crinkle artrefact is only at one edge, not over the whole width. From this you should start deducing.

Agulliver · Aug 21, 2019

Yes only on one edge. I've tried three cassettes and opened up the loader (in my changing bag) and can't ascertain anything is wrong. The film doesn't pull out of the loader as easy as my other similar device loaded with HP5+ but it's not difficult to pull.

I've used my other Lloyds style loader today to load 6 cassettes of HP5+ without problems so I haven't suddenly forgotten the technique. I am baffled. Unless there's some issue with the film...but the first four cassettes loaded fine.

donkee · Aug 21, 2019

If this is an old lloyd style loader I would take the film out of it and look the felt seals over really well. I had to replace the felt on both of my lloyds loaders. The felt was starting to peel away and grabbing the film. Try moving it around with your fingers to see if it is loosening. Try the film in the loader that currently has HP5 in it and the HP5 in the loader you had a problem with. See what happens.......

Pentode · Aug 21, 2019

donkee said:
Try the film in the loader that currently has HP5 in it and the HP5 in the loader you had a problem with. See what happens.......

Exactly my thought. Switch loaders and see if the problem follows the film or the loader.

mgb74 · Aug 21, 2019

Pentode said:
Exactly my thought. Switch loaders and see if the problem follows the film or the loader.

My first guess is that somehow the film path from bulk reel to cassette got "cockeyed". I'd first make sure that the bulk reel is not misaligned in the film path. Then try switching cassettes and loader.

Agulliver · Jan 3, 2020

Revisiting this. I haven't yet managed to swap the Fomapan into another loader, but I did have another go at rolling some films today. I was able to load a 12 exposure test cassette without difficulty, so I then rolled two 36 exposure cassettes....each was more difficult than other films but not so difficult that I damaged the winding key.

Howver, the 12 exposure test film went into the plastic cassette OK but when I ran it through a camera today (known to be working) I did note that the winding of each frame was *very* stiff, I could feel the film tugging. Upon rewind the film actually broke going back into the cassette. I developed what I had, and the sprocket holes on both edges are damaged but one edge especially. There is also a lot of scratching across each frame (horizontal if looking in landscape).

I am quite baffled. The first few cassettes came out fine. I've taken the film out of the loader, put it back in...as people have suggested the only thing left is to transplant the film into another loader.

Ariston · Jan 3, 2020

mgb74 said:
My first guess is that somehow the film path from bulk reel to cassette got "cockeyed". I'd first make sure that the bulk reel is not misaligned in the film path. Then try switching cassettes and loader.

This happens to me all the time in my Patterson (I think) loader. I can't keep it straight for some reason. But it never crinkles my film. That may be your issue. Take out and reload the spool and see what happens.

Kino · Jan 3, 2020

Try placing a very thin spacer, like a circular piece of thin cardboard, under the bulk film roll to push the film up further. There may be a casting defect in the throat of the bulk loader that is grabbing the edge of the film.

Also check the throat of the bulk loader carefully; you might have a film chip embedded in the velvet that is hard to see...

Agulliver · Jan 3, 2020

I've used this loader several times before, but I'll check everything over. I do have one spare loader, albeit an old Watson 66 type. Maybe the thing to do is transplant the Fomapan into my spare Watson and give the Lloyds loader a good checking out?

Thanks for all the advice.

cramej · Jan 3, 2020

If this is the type of loader that counts frames for you, then there is something wrong with the sprocket for the frame counter. Other types don't have anything in the film path that could prevent it from winding smoothly.

abruzzi · Jan 3, 2020

Nah, theLloyds loader are mechanically the simplest. They simply have a dark chamber for the bulk roll, a felt covered slit for the film cassette to sit in, and a door that closes over the cassette. There is no intervening mechanics, so there is very little to go wrong. I have three of them, and one issue I have noticed, though I don’t think this would cause the OPs issue, is since my 3 have been made at different times, the crank (which is not permanently fixed in place) on one is too tight for another, so if I accidentally mix up which crank to use, it can be too tight, and be very difficult to load the film.

Bulk loading issue film crinkling

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