Building a Film and Digital System - Age Old Canon v Nikon

[Buceph]

-I get the impression that you'd rather buy new than used gear (The F5/F100/3000V aside, for obvious reasons) - and that you want AF.

Also, I do not have much experience with Canon and consequently know very little about the availability of primes for that mount.

At least at the wide end (Where I spend most of my time), the Nikkor AF prime selection is good; fast-ish glass is available new for less than $500 at 20-24-28-35mm. These are all screwdriver AF designs, though, so they require an autofocus motor in the body itself. (Excluding the D40, among others)

As for lens incompatibilities, I think you'll find the problem is a lot smaller in practice than you suspect. Unless you choose one of the most basic Nikon D bodies, the selection of compatible (AF) lenses is vast and reasonably priced - and, if one is to buy into a system, it really (IMHO, of course) does not make much sense to base one's ultimate decision on the limitations of the most basic model available - one you're quite likely to upgrade from in the near future if you like the system, anyway.

If you'd rather buy a new flash unit (And I know I would; you never know what kind of use & abuse a Speedlight has seen) you're out of luck if you want Nikon's own offerings - they simply do not have any current Speedlights which will give TTL with legacy cameras. If you're open to third party flashes, though, I am 99% sure Metz flashes support both i-TTL (Which is what you want with your DSLR) and plain old TTL (Which will work a charm with film cameras.)

Unfortunately, I cannot provide any detailed comparison to Canon (After all, most people choose a system and stick with it) - but I hope you'll have some detailed feedback on Canon as well, allowing you to make an informed decision.

I'll readily admit that I am disappointed after finding that Nikon has ditched plain TTL support from their Speedlights; fortunately, I have a SB800 and a couple of SB600s around the house.

Cheers. I've figured out all this for Nikon, because I've spent yonks reading up on the compatability of systems and the like. All I was asking for was someone to or a link to somewhere I could find out the same for Canon. Instead, some people are acting like I've pissed in their cornflakes.

 

[tkamiya]

I think everyone was genuinely trying to help you by figuring out what you want and what will work for you. Some of the answer may not be to your liking but there is certain level of appointment's in hearing you call it "pissing in corn flake."

Good luck in your search.

I'm going to my darkroom for fun activities.

 

[Buceph]

I think everyone was genuinely trying to help you by figuring out what you want and what will work for you. Some of the answer may not be to your liking but there is certain level of appointment's in hearing you call it "pissing in corn flake."

Good luck in your search.

I'm going to my darkroom for fun activities.

Maybe my view of comments has been tainted by one guy in particular saying, "terrible thread." I'll collect myself, take a deep breath and go again.

And tkamiya: In answer to your previous question about bumping the ISO. I'd already be doing that at F4 as any sports photographer says that F2.8 is where it's at, and F4 is for a very bright day when you want the sharpness bump from stopping down.



All I'm really asking is whether Canon make for a better "all round" film and digital system, than Nikon for the relatively little amount of cash I have to spend? Especially considering what I have to spend on my entire film setup is what one person could spend on their basic digital body.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

All I'm really asking is whether Canon make for a better "all round" film and digital system, than Nikon for the relatively little amount of cash I have to spend?

That's like asking people how they like their eggs. Some people will say yes, others will say no, and others will tell y you to go sony/pentax/olympus. "Better all around" is completely dependent upon the user behind it.

 

[ColdEye]

If you are going to use other legacy lenses like olympus or the Screw Mount lenses, you can use them in a canon body via adapter. Plus they have the cheapest FF (5d). Then get something like an Eos 3 or 1n and your set.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe my view of comments has been tainted by one guy in particular saying, "terrible thread." I'll collect myself, take a deep breath and go again.

Most likely that response originated because of all the digital content in this thread. It is really close to the line where the digital content will cause the thread to be closed by the moderators, as being outside of APUG's intentionally narrow focus.

 

[CGW]

If this thread closes, check photo.net. Years' worth of info on your questions there. The site's faded recently but the archives are still worth researching.

 

[alex66]

See if you can try some of the bodies in your hands, also are there any particular lenses you want for the main part of your work? Is the Canon or Nikon offerings available and which have the properties you value the most. Another point is you can use a pre G series AF Nikon lens on an FM or F3, do you fancy a nice manual focus camera for film work even if its for the occasional work? I like the way Nikons feel over the Canon offerings and for my 99.99% at base asa shooting they all work well, but I prefer manual focus cameras for film and use Fujicas and Canon Fd for my film work. Now if someone would produce a Digi with Fuji X or Canon FD mount I would seriously consider it. The important thing is that you get pleasure out of whatever you decide upon if it feels a pain to use you will more than likely not use it as much. If you are only interested in prime shooting seriously look at Pentax they do some rocking lenses.

 

[Tim Gray]

I think the digital and modern lens offerings are pretty close. It goes to Canon on some things and Nikon on the other. But for older cameras - obviously with Nikon you can easily go back to manual focus lenses and cameras and still have a compatible mount if you pick the right stuff. On the other hand, if you want auto focus, the Canon EOS 3 and 1V are seriously nice cameras for not too much money; the Nikon F6 is a good deal more.

Personally, I have a Canon 1V. Some day I'll get a FF DSLR but not yet. I'd take an F6 if someone gave it to though

 

[hoffy]

Lets face facts – you are going to build a system based more so on it’s digital capabilities then its film capabilities. If that is the case, CaNikon – Potatoe/Patatoe

But, then again, why discount Pentax or even Sony – Pentax take pretty much any bayonet mount lens. Sony can take any AF Minolta lens and have Ziess glass as well (Heck, Sony even have white lenses….if that matters to you…)

 

[OddE]

Cheers. I've figured out all this for Nikon, because I've spent yonks reading up on the compatability of systems and the like. All I was asking for was someone to or a link to somewhere I could find out the same for Canon. Instead, some people are acting like I've pissed in their cornflakes.

-I don't eat cornflakes. I am sorry you did not find my experience with the incompatibility issues which concerned you useful.

As for a link to info on Canon issues of the same kind, please consider the following link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Canon+EOS+compatibility+issues. (A few of the hits look interesting and to the point.)

 

[blockend]

It would be unfortunate to see this thread closed down because the basic premise - minus a few diversions - is how do my film cameras and digital cameras interface? This is important for young, life-long digi users dipping a toe into film and for serious film heads flirting with DSLRs for a particular need, moving images in my case.

The answer is it depends and takes in cost, technology and how much of a heritage system you already possess. It sounds like the OP needs a sports lens and this market has become 99.9% digital in the last decade. In short, if you want to shoot stills only and don't possess any old film lenses, read the latest camera tests and put your budget to the manufacturer that fits your requirements. If you own EOS film lenses and/or want to shoot moving images, you'd be crazy not to buy a Canon as of November '11.
If you own FD lenses, their orphan status has kept prices down sufficiently not to influence your choice of manufacturer - buy FD and a separate DSLR system. FD will convert to DSLR but only via a glass adapter that's a technical fudge and will effect image quality noticeably. Nikon has consistent mount compatibility over many years but almost always at the expense of automation. Don't expect any manfs lenses to work fully with a body from another era, or even the next year in some cases. Personally, I would never buy into a system based on one lens unless it was a professional tax write-off.

 

[flatulent1]

Cheers. I've figured out all this for Nikon, because I've spent yonks reading up on the compatability of systems and the like. All I was asking for was someone to or a link to somewhere I could find out the same for Canon. Instead, some people are acting like I've pissed in their cornflakes.

There are no compatibility issues with Canon EOS gear that I'm aware of. Backwards/forwards, it all works together. I have some first generation film cameras that work just fine with latest generation lenses.

Like Nikon, full frame lenses [EF] work fine on crop sensor cameras, digital only lenses [EF-S] do not work on full frame bodies.

Canon FD was a completely separate system, there is no compatibility between EOS and FD whatsoever. May as well call it by a different name.

I have a pretty good collection of EOS gear, film and digital. A few years ago I branched out into Nikon by acquiring an F4, a pair of AF-D lenses, then an N80. Great stuff. But I became discouraged by their lens compatibility issues and sold the whole kit in favor of some really nice Contax gear. You mentioned the F5/F100 bodies; similar bodies in the EOS line are the 1V and EOS 3. I have them both, great cameras.

Good luck with your choice!

 

[five]

Ef lenses will fit EOS bodies (including APS-C Ef-s compatible bodies)
Ef-s lenses will only fit APS-C (digital) bodies made after 2003
FD lenses will not fit EOS bodies unless you use an adapter and even then you will lose infinity focus unless said adapter has corrective optics which could degrade image quality
Nikon lenses can be used on EOS bodies with an adapter. You will of course lose AF and camera controlled aperture but retain infinity focus without the need for corrective glass.

 

[Chan Tran]

So does anybody know if this lens that the OP is so interested in would work with the DSLR or not. If not what kind of camera would it work on?
http://www.ffordes.com/product/11080310214081

 

[Les Sarile]

It states it's an EOS mount and certainly looks like it. There has always been compatibility issues with Sigma lenses on EOS DSLRs that require re-chipping of the lens. Assuming since it states not DSLR compatible that is the case.

 

[brucemuir]

Chan, this is what I'd do if I wanted that lens.
Contact FFordes or whatever seller has them and get the serial number block of the lenses in question/for sale.
Or ask them directly if they know what film slr's (the site you linked states no dslr) they ARE compatible with.

If they can't say, research the serial #'s and find out what af sensors those serial numbers are compatible with.

As Canikon updated their af algorithms, the chips is 3rd party lenses couldn't always interpret them correctly.
I believe they did this for licensing reasons etc
or
just the technology advanced beyond what the 3rd party chips could deal with.

 

[Chan Tran]

Well thanks! But I am not interested in this lens but the OP is. It seems that this only lens made the OP rethinking about buying Nikon system so I am curious.

 

[Rol_Lei Nut]

Is there a lens that will perform at F4 at 200mm on a crop bod, and that's only £199?

If talking about manual focus, the Nikkor AI/AIS 200mm 4.0 is a lovely lens, though its effective aperture is closer to 4.5.

Other good lenses which can be adapted to Canon and which you *might* find in that price category:
Zeiss 200mm 4.0 for Rollefilex.
Rolleinar / Voigtländer 200mm 3.5 for Rolleiflex (made by Mamiya - also look for same lens Mamiya branded in M42).
Leica 180mm 4.0 is very compact and sometimes cheap.
Meyer Optik / Pentacon 200mm 4.0. Optically nice, but diaphragm mechanism fragile - often very cheap.

Leica 250mm 4.0 second version (rotating tripod bushing), probably a bit over-budget, but very nice lens for price (in Germany, with luck, about €300-350).
Enna 240mm 4.5 M42. Tiny (a real pocket tele) but quite decent from 5.6.
Meyer Telemegor 300mm 4.5. Big, heavy, slow but very nice from 5.6.
Zeiss Jena 300mm 4.0 (Pentacon six mount). Bigger, heavier but lovely imagery, even wide open. If you don't have to carry it far and use it on a pod, a winner!

 

[2F/2F]

There are no compatibility issues with Canon EOS gear that I'm aware of. Backwards/forwards, it all works together.

You are right in regards to EF equipment. But there are compatibility issues with EF-S lenses, by simple definition of what the EF-S lenses are: lenses made for a "sub-mini" format.

 

[Buceph]

Thanks for the help guys.

I think I'm going to stick with Nikon, just because I'm more familiar with them. Then I'll save up for a 70-200mm f2.8 of some variety. I figure that'll give me a good walkabout lens for my film body, and on a crop body be usable for sports, even if I need a 1.4 extender seeing as it'll only bump it to f4, which should be managable.

 

[2F/2F]

Have fun walking about with a 70-200 lens.

 

[Buceph]

Have fun walking about with a 70-200 lens.

/buy a bag

More stuff to spend money I don't have on.

 

[PentaxBronica]

Can I just ask, why are you so determined to have one of those two?

Pentax made some incredible film SLRs and all of the K mount lenses will fit and meter on all of their DSLRs.

Is there a lens that will perform at F4 at 200mm on a crop bod, and that's only £199?

The only thing that I can find is this at twice the price.

Yep, there are three Pentax 200mm f4 primes which should come in under that budget. Pick from SMC Pentax (earliest, only made for two years, a bit rare as a result), SMC Pentax-M or SMC Pentax-A. The latter is more sought-after as it offers an A setting on the aperture ring, so you don't need to use stop-down metering on DSLRs (and you can use Program modes on later film bodies).

 

[Buceph]

Can I just ask, why are you so determined to have one of those two?

Much better support on the second hand market here (Ireland.)

If I had access to something like Keh, I'd be much more open.