Build quality down the generations

[Colin Templeton]

 

[Colin Templeton]

I'm fairly new to this forum, and have inadvertently posted the same image twice. I'm in the fortunate position of owning several pro film SLR cameras. One from the 70's, one from the 80's, and one from the early 2000's. The EOS-1V is amazing, and by all accounts, pretty indestructible. I use mine a lot. It's completely dependable. But so are the others.

The film rails on these three cameras - Nikon F2, Canon F-1 New, and Canon EOS-1V have shrunk through each new generation. As much as I love my EOS-1V, I'm mightily impressed by how over-engineered the F2 is.

 

[xkaes]

It's completely dependable.

And completely dependent -- on batteries.

 

[AgX]

The film rails on these three cameras - Nikon F2, Canon F-1 New, and Canon EOS-1V have shrunk through each new generation. As much as I love my EOS-1V, I'm mightily impressed by how over-engineered the F2 is.

I am not sure whether the length of the rails is a sign of built quality. Basically the length of the film rails need not be wider than the gate. One may argue that a wider flattening of film has effect on flatness over the gate, but I dare to doubt this.

Anyway, different approaches over the years had been applied to the rails (just think of Zeiss).

 

[Huss]

Some of the really obvious drop offs in build quality are with Nikon when they used to use metal door latches on all their SLR cameras - even down to the EM - but when they went to the AF slrs, the later amateur models had plastic latches which often break - F70/75/80/100. At that point Nikon only deemed their professional cameras worthy to have metal latches. How much money could they have possibly saved?

 

[4season]

I don't know that would make a difference in film flatness, but I'd think it would reduce friction.

 

[Colin Templeton]

I like some of these replies, but am unsure how to indicate that. I know that the EOS-1V is completely battery dependent, and the F-1 New is largely battery dependent, but that doesn't really trouble me. They just work, and are reliable.

We do live in a plastic age now, but it's interesting to look back at something like a Nikon F, or F2 to see how things were once built.

 

[MattKing]

I'm fairly new to this forum, and have inadvertently posted the same image twice.

If you would like a moderator to delete one set, just ask.
On the reference to the film rails, I don't know that larger film rails says anything either way about build quality. Longer and wider rails may actually be a way of dealing with less accurate tolerances in the film transport mechanisms and pressure plates.

 

[ic-racer]

I suspect the thinner rails are an improvement to facilitate faster frame rates with motor drive rather than cost cutting.

 

[Huss]

We do live in a plastic age now, but it's interesting to look back at something like a Nikon F, or F2 to see how things were once built.

Leica still builds their film cameras pretty much the same as they always did!

 

[Paul Howell]

Minolta AF A mount build quality improved, the Minolta 9 is much more robust than the 9000, 800si or 9xi. I had the F, F2 and F3P, I think there was a progression of build quality. While the F3 was electronic the machinal bits and pieces were as solid as the F and F2.

 

[gone]

The smaller film rails may be due to smaller cameras, as well as all the electronics that are jammed into the newer cameras. I had a tiny Nikon FG that weighed almost as much as a big camera due to that.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

We do live in a plastic age now, but it's interesting to look back at something like a Nikon F, or F2 to see how things were once built.

Even cameras as prosaic as the little Voigtlander Vito fixed-lens cameras were made of machined and cast parts assembled by expert bench technicians:

https://www.35mmc.com/05/04/2019/voigtlander-vito-bl-by-andrew-morang/

And look at any Kodak Retina: meticulous assembly of beautifully-machined parts:

https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2022/05/1950s-optical-excellence-kodak-retina.html

Asahi (Pentax) was famous for its refined Spotmatic cameras and Takumar lenses:

https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2018/06/photographic-bargain-135mm-f35-pentax.html

 

[CMoore]

I like some of these replies, but am unsure how to indicate that. I know that the EOS-1V is completely battery dependent, and the F-1 New is largely battery dependent, but that doesn't really trouble me. They just work, and are reliable.

We do live in a plastic age now, but it's interesting to look back at something like a Nikon F, or F2 to see how things were once built.

I would imagine many things have a similar story. Everything from guitar amps, to cars, to washing machines.

I have read a lot of good things about the EOS.....is it 1V and 1N.?
As i get older, i might need to consider something like that for the AF.
You almost wonder, with the way prices go up (and sometimes down) if it would be a good idea to buy one now, for use in the future.

 

[wiltw]

It would be interesting to get a veteran camera technician to comment upon the generalizations of seeing either improvements or degradation in the various aspects of 'quality of build' (not assessment of features like metering or shutter accuracy) to resolve a whole lot of opinions/impressions.

 

[Colin Templeton]

I purchased a Canon EOS 1N and PDBE1 and Command Back E1 at Easter,1994. This camera is still in occasional use, never been serviced, never faulted nor blinked, though it is dwarfed in workload by a Pentax 67 and ALPA SW20. Many of my prints to the Ilfochrome Classic process came off roll after roll of Velvia 50 from this camera.
I also have a full complement of L-series lenses as and when required. I do not require any high-tech, over-specified camera for my work — it is me doing the decision-making, not necessarily the camera.

The back plane of the 1V pictured is pretty much identical to the 1N, as is the overall footprint.
Ergonomics and derring-do with design drove the idea of Canon's T-series and the later EOS-series which continues to this day, albeit now getting more bulkier, crowded and chunkier on the top plate. People didn't necessarily embrace the T-series Canons when they first appeared, and then the EOS series also raised eyebrows, mostly for summarily discarding the FD mount in favour of an all-electronic mount. It did rub folks up the wrong way. Like the saying goes, get over it and get on with it. Millions of photographers did just that and the 1N and those that followed were true epoch-making cameras that still command a devout following today.

I think really the 1N and 1V struck the right and beautiful balance, despite quibbles about buttons doubling up with functions and still other buttons hidden behind the "trapdoor"!

A-P

The more I use my EOS-1V, the more in awe I am of the thought that went into the design. And the durability. It just goes, with minimal effort from the photographer. Back in 2008, the place I worked, my boss there had a very scuffed EOS-1V that he'd long since retired. We found it in a drawer one day. There was hardly any paint on it. The junior photographer there asked if she could put a film in it to see if it still worked OK. Every function still worked.

 

[Colin Templeton]

I would imagine many things have a similar story. Everything from guitar amps, to cars, to washing machines.

I have read a lot of good things about the EOS.....is it 1V and 1N.?
As i get older, i might need to consider something like that for the AF.
You almost wonder, with the way prices go up (and sometimes down) if it would be a good idea to buy one now, for use in the future.

The price of all decent film cameras seems to be constantly rising these past few years.

 

[GregY]

The price of all decent film cameras seems to be constantly rising these past few years.

At $500-600 the EOS-1V is a downright bargain compared to the current prices of P&S cameras like the Ricoh GR or the Contax T3

 

[grat]

And completely dependent -- on batteries.

So's my computer and my cell phone, and I'm waaaaay more reliant on those for daily living than I am on a vintage film camera. In fact, those vintage cameras are far more reliant on film than they are batteries-- But no one ever complains about that.

 

[xkaes]

And my computer and cell phone have failed me over and over thanks to their dead batteries.

Thanks so much for reminding me of all the trouble they have caused me over the years.

Maybe taking a few pictures with a camera that won't fail will help bring down my blood pressure.

 

[Paul Howell]

As I understand the 1V is still be serviced by Canon as long as it is sent to Japan. The Nikon F6 will serviced by Nikon for another few years, last complaint was that Nikon USA was not providing AF calibration. Although I am pretty happy with my Minolta AF bodies, I do wish I had gone Canon, as any full frame EOS lens will work on any Canon EOS body, including VR lens. My Sony SSM lens will not work on most of my Minolta bodies, only the 7 and 5. My 9 had been factory upgraded to work with SSM lens.

 

[Colin Templeton]

At $500-600 the EOS-1V is a downright bargain compared to the current prices of P&S cameras like the Ricoh GR or the Contax T3

Absolutely - Olympus MJU2 cameras are beginning to stray into this territory. That's insane.

 

[Colin Templeton]

I suspect the thinner rails are an improvement to facilitate faster frame rates with motor drive rather than cost cutting.

Interesting, had not considered that

 

[Bob L]

At $500-600 the EOS-1V is a downright bargain compared to the current prices of P&S cameras like the Ricoh GR or the Contax T3

That's about what a GR goes for. And even with a faulty display, the thing is still a marvel. And what a lens.

 

[grat]

And my computer and cell phone have failed me over and over thanks to their dead batteries.

Thanks so much for reminding me of all the trouble they have caused me over the years.

Maybe taking a few pictures with a camera that won't fail will help bring down my blood pressure.

Strange-- Mine give plenty of warning that they need to be recharged, and thus, rarely if ever, lose power. For my camera, I've got one in the camera, one in the bag, and one in the charger.

Do you frequently run out of gas in your vehicles as well?

I kind of get the complaint-- batteries are a nuisance. But not having them is more of a nuisance, and it's just one of those things you have to take into account-- like film/memory cards, gas, daylight, food, water, etc.-- and it's not like they're a novel, recent invention, as a practical source of electricity, they've been around for nearly 200 years.