"Budget" Medium Format options?

[alanrockwood]

Have you considered a Kiev 60? Although the price differential between those and the higher end MF camera gear has declined, I think it is still the one of the less expensive (though riskier) routes into MF photography.

 

[agphotography]

I had thought about the Kievs, but to be honest with you, I'm not sure I'd really want to invest any money in them.

I have considered the Bronica SQ system though, it is quite affordable in most respects. Would a 50 / 80mm combo be pretty solid for that camera?

 

[ronlamarsh]

Not so

If you want something cheap and fun you could try a Moskva 6x9 folder.
The image quality is not excellent but acceptable for most usage and it is a very non-threatening camera which is a good thing for street photography.

I don't want to start an argument but the russian 6x9 folder i used to have and the one I now have produce excellent images that to my eye i cannot tell the difference between them and ones made on my rolleiflex 3.5T when enlargered to 16x20.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

You mentioned that you are looking in Fuji rangefinders, so I would ask - did you look at the Bronica RF645? If you like 35mm field of view that it could be an interesting choice and the Body with the 65/4 lens sells for reasonable money. If you want then to add a wider lens the 45mm has reasonable price. Only long lenses (100 or 135) are expensive and somewhat harder to find.

You have also mentioned the Pentax 645 (I guess you mean the "N" version) - a camera very different from Mamiya 6 or 7. I had one for a while (with a zoom 45-90). The viewfinder was very nice, AF quite OK, but the with zoom lens the camera was quite heavy. What I missed was that once it is a 645 SLR I would prefer to be able to change backs what the pentax can not. I would go for Contax 645 if I could, but that is beyond your budged (though it can take digital backs if you need that in the future).

On the very beginnig you mentioned that you disliked the GW690 from Fuji as it felt very "plastic". Well, most of the RF and RF-like cameras in medium format will NOT feel better - in particular the GA645 or event the Mamiyas. But I would advice you not to put too much weight into that "feeling" all of these cameras are well made and AFAIK all have metal frames and plastic is only the surface.

 

[agphotography]

I'm resurrecting my own thread because I had to take a break from my search but it is now potentially going to be back on (If I decide to sell a lens) anyways, I'm revisiting the search now with new options.

I'm looking back into systems now and I'll have just under $1k to invest in whichever platform.

I will admit that while I wouldn't be able to purchase a digital back in the immediate future the possibility of easily utilizing one (wether it be a purchase or rental) is vastly appealing. Im considering this more than just a "fun" camera but rather one that I can now build upon for the future.
There in lies my hesitation to purchase into a "dead" system for potential support in the future.

Does that leave me with basically only the Mamiya 645 AFD in my budget range?

 

[John Austin]

Firstly think about what your main subject is and lighting is likely to be, then find a camera that suits that and feels comfortable for you

Forget everyone's personal favourites, you will find your own - Perhaps start cheaply or get a Rollei as they hold their price if you decide you don't like it or the format

 

[agphotography]

Ok so in doing some "shopping around" It seems that there a number of systems which would interest me.

I see the appeal of the Mamiya AFD system, but I can also see the appeal of the older 645 Pro / Pro TL sytems as well, not to mention the cheaper lenses and more numerous options for lenses.

In abandoning the thought of future digital purposes the appeal of the Pentax 67 still remains, though I wouldn't be able to afford the P67II.

I've considered an RZ67 again but I've had one before and while I absolutely loved it, I never got comfortable with using that camera off a tripod. I would like something that I can walk around with.

So let's just say for argument's sake, if I go with 645 let's assume it'll either be the Mamiya Pro / TL or the AFD, I could get more for my money with the Pro TL, but have less digital options in the future.

Or if I go with the P67 I'll have no digital options (outside of scanning, which is fine) and it will be more of a secondary camera. I do love the idea of shooting 6x7 negs again though....

It's amazing how difficult of a decision it is, I've tried quite a few systems out already in the past, and there wasn't one that I flat out DIDN'T like.


If I had to guess I'd say I probably wouldn't be doing A LOT of studio work with whichever camera I get. I have a full lighting system that I use with my DSLRs and I may dabble with doing studio lights again, but this would more often than not be an available light, hand-held setup, or locked on a tripod for landscapes.

 

[CGW]

If you're after portability and ergonomics that enable fast handling and shooting, then a Mamiya 645(Super/Pro/ProTL) is probably the ticket. With a winder grip and a prism finder, you can keep an eye on a subject and and keep shooting, too. For me, the Mamiya 645 bodies without a winder grip are ergonomic disasters. I had a Super and didn't use it much until I found a winder. With an 80/2.8, it's a fairly light-weight outfit. I'd stress less about a digital upgrade path since you've got DSLRs now.

 

[Tony-S]

In abandoning the thought of future digital purposes the appeal of the Pentax 67 still remains, though I wouldn't be able to afford the P67II. I've considered an RZ67 again but I've had one before and while I absolutely loved it, I never got comfortable with using that camera off a tripod. I would like something that I can walk around with.

I handled all three of the 6x7 SLRs and went with the GS-1 for its more compact size since I spend a bit of time hiking in the Rockies. The biggest issue is the MFD of the lenses, which isn't that great, but typical of leaf shutter lenses. So I have an extension tube for close-ups (e.g., head shots).

 

[agphotography]

How is shooting the bronica for portrait images? That is the appeal of the RZ/RB system with the rotating backs.
I will also admit that with the P67 I like the sound of that 105 f/2.4

I guess the first and most important decision is to figure out which format I want to pursue. The tricky thing is that I've used several formats and I don't really have a favorite.

I think I can rule out 6x6 because I would want to dig into a Hasselblad setup and I just can't afford that right now. I considered a Bronica SQ-A, but there just wasn't enough in the way of faster lenses for me. I'm a fan of shooting wide open with a shallow DOF. So I suppose my decision is between 645 and 6x7.

There are a lot of things to like about the P67, but equally as many with the Mamiya 645 systems.

Sorry for all of my rambling, I just want to get into the right system for me.

 

[Brian C. Miller]

Abram, the best thing that I can recommend is that you buy something, and go make images.

All of the camera systems and styles have been used by somebody to make wonderful images, including freakin' Holgas. I started with a Pentax 6x7, which I still have and use. Later on I bought a Pentax 645, and I can use the 6x7 lenses on the 645. I have kept using these cameras for, what, almost 15 years? I have expanded with a Holga, a Fuji 645zi, and a Yashica 635. The Fuji is sharp, the Yashica is sharp, and the Holga is something I don't care if it gets broken.

What it comes down to is this: you won't make photographs without a camera. Buy something, and use it well.

 

[agphotography]

Brian,

You are absolutely right, and honestly I do this EVERY time I start looking into cameras. I research things to death! Usually this is a good thing, but I will often get stuck at a fork in the road because I keep weighing Pros / Cons. Thankfully I'm kept busy with my 1V and my DSLRs but I just MISS the quality afforded by Medium Format.

I'll have to list that lens first (probably tomorrow) and then I will start the shopping process

Thank you all for being patient with me and for offering your own personal opinions and insights. You have all been very helpful!

 

[MattKing]

The upside of the Mamiya 645 route is that the manual focus lenses are at least usable with the latest digital compatible auto-focus bodies.

Usable, with some reduced functionality of course.

 

[agphotography]

Matt, you are right and that has been something I've been looking at.

I'm leaning towards the 645 Pro TL right now, I would want to pick up that 80 f/1.9 but it does carry a hefty premium! I priced out a Pro TL kit with the winder, AE prism, 2 backs and the 80 f/1.9 and it comes out to be about $930 on KEH. Almost half that cost is just the 80. If I were to get the f/2.8 instead I could also get the sweet 45 f/2.8.

 

[MattKing]

Matt, you are right and that has been something I've been looking at.

I'm leaning towards the 645 Pro TL right now, I would want to pick up that 80 f/1.9 but it does carry a hefty premium! I priced out a Pro TL kit with the winder, AE prism, 2 backs and the 80 f/1.9 and it comes out to be about $930 on KEH. Almost half that cost is just the 80. If I were to get the f/2.8 instead I could also get the sweet 45 f/2.8.

If you get the 45 f/2.8, I'd recommend one of the newer style lenses - the ones that take 67mm filters. I have one of the latest "N" versions, and it is really good.

Not to mention a lot smaller than the older version I had previously (77mm filter size).

Unless you need the TTl flash capability, or the very latest version, the 645 Pro is as good as the Pro Tl.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

So I'm dabbling with the idea (again) of picking up a medium format camera. This would honestly only be used for fun and probably some candid street photography (I can imagine the reactions of people seeing one haha!)

Anyways I'm trying to figure out what my best options are going to be.

Some facts: I am not particular to any one format, I'm thinking I would be fine with a fixed lens, but modular cameras are not out of the question (future expansion, especially if Digital Backs are available), I'm going to have about $4-900 to work with.

I owned a Fuji GW670III for a short time, and while the image quality was amazing, I just didn't really care for how the camera felt in my hands. It felt a bit too "plasticky", I'm partial to metal cameras for some reason.

Regardless of my prior fuji experience, the GW690II is still on the table of interest, but not the III. I am also considering a TLR (thinking Yashica Mat 124g?). Also possibly one of the Fuji 645s? The GS645s sounded interesting because it was manual focus and had a range finder (not just scale focus).

Anyways I am open to suggestions from you guys. I am not looking to necessarily build out a kit right now. One lens would be fine (I am a big fan of 35mm and 50mm in 24x36 terms).

So what are some of your favorites in that price range?

- Abram

mamiya6 or7

 

[BrianL]

I agree with Brian. You can use any camera and any format for almost any type of photography, just pick one up and learn to use it. Adjust your style to the camera or at least decide what your style is and then see what camera may fit it. Shotgunning will drive you crazy, empty your purse and make you insane.

I've work from guys with a ton of money invested in a ton of gear while their best work comes from some amatuer pre-WWI 35mm camera that is beat to heck and cost them probably $5 at some flea market. I have a lot of bucks tied up in my Bronica and can say some of my better work came from either my Polaroid 180 or 195 and the Ziess 35mm Ikonta using the Sunny 16 system.

 

[Corto Maltese]

Personally, I'm a Big fan of the Agfa Isolette. I, II, and III.

So easy to carry, And with the mid range Apotar lens more than enough capable of decent shots.

Affordable, Reliable and light weight, Whats not to like? (And VERY easy to work on)

 

[prumpkah]

Personally, I'm a Big fan of the Agfa Isolette. I, II, and III.

So easy to carry, And with the mid range Apotar lens more than enough capable of decent shots.

Affordable, Reliable and light weight, Whats not to like? (And VERY easy to work on)

Just what I needed to hear: I'm very tempted by the chance to get a sweet Isolette III Mark II with upgraded leather bellows, late reformulation of the 75/3.5 Solinar and Synchro-Compur MXV. Same lens and shutter as the Super Isolette, at 1/3 the price. You may have just pushed me over the edge.

 

[Tony-S]

How is shooting the bronica for portrait images? That is the appeal of the RZ/RB system with the rotating backs.
I will also admit that with the P67 I like the sound of that 105 f/2.4

It's fine, other than the poor mfd of the lenses. You really need to have an extension tube if you want head shots. It's kind of a pain.

 

[prumpkah]

Just what I needed to hear: I'm very tempted by the chance to get a sweet Isolette III Mark II with upgraded leather bellows, late reformulation of the 75/3.5 Solinar and Synchro-Compur MXV. Same lens and shutter as the Super Isolette, at 1/3 the price. You may have just pushed me over the edge.

Picked this up today and it's a real cupcake in primo condition. A sweet 6x6 folder! Am looking forward to taking it out for a spin soon. Any advice from experienced users?

 

[rhmimac]

Shooting a new lubitel166+ for a year now,a plastic camera but for entering MF you can swap from 6•4.5 to 6•6 in a minute,to find your preference: square or rectangular
Sent from my Lumia 610 using Board Express

 

[crsantin]

I just picked up my first MF camera, a Yashica 24 from a fine fellow here on APUG. I'm very happy with it. Image quality is exceptional and the camera is not very heavy if you wanted to hit the streets with it. I haven't done so yet but will soon. It's a real treat composing with a TLR, and a lot easier to use than I thought it would be.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

I may be a little late to the thread but you can't go wrong with a mamiya tlr system. 1K will get you a bunch of stuff with a little careful and patient searching on ebay. The glass is sharp sharp sharp, and you don't need closeup lenses or tubes for close work, those bellows extend out forever.

 

[Pumalite]

I had a GS645s twice and sold it twice. To me this is one of those cameras that is better on paper than in real life. Some cons are personal, others more arguable:
- the shutter is loud for being a leaf shutter
- the shutter release button's travel is not so smooth, which negates some of the advantages of the vibration-free (if noisy) leaf shutter
- the default orientation is vertical
- the viewfinder is rather distorted and not very accurate (not as good as my Bessa R2A at least)
- the rangefinder spot is not as clear and easy to use as some others (Bessa R2A again, no comparison)
- I never really liked the focusing tab
- there is some clutter on the smallish lens, with the aperture, shutter speeds and focusing ring all next to each other
- the camera feels plasticky
- the lens protection bar is not pretty
- the lens is sharp but also very contrasty (typically Fuji), a bit too much so for b&w to my taste
- the mfd (1m/3ft) is too long for a wide (60mm) lens
It's not a terrible camera, just one that I could never quite like, even after trying hard.

In the price range that you indicate (400-900 USD) a Rolleiflex with a 3.5 Planar/Xenotar would be the most likeable choice for me. I would avoid the Tessar/Xenar models. The Planars/Xenotars are better at wider apertures and have (much) flatter fields. A used but well-working Planar/Xenotar 3,5 (not mint or near mint) should just fit your budget.

There are many (types of) medium format cameras around to choose from given your budget and preferencec. Maybe you should try to find out first what type of camera fits you best (rangefinder, SLR, TLR). Admittedly this is a difficult task if you've never handled one of each category.

+1 for the Rolleirflex with the Planar 3.5