Budget 6 x 9 cm folders?

[MattKing]

Are you re-rolling films or does it take 120 out of the box?

Re-rolling - these cameras were designed to make you use Kodak film!

 

[eli griggs]

Re-rolling - these cameras were designed to make you use Kodak film!

Yes, I think that it was Kodak's design to cash in doubly on the photography moment, by selling inexpensive, mid range and high quality cameras to all Segments of Society, and once they were hooked, to sell them films and cameras for the rest of their lives.

That sort of vision has been/is used in all sorts of product sales, and of all the legal ones. Kodak's products did the very best at it.

IMO.

 

[JPD]

The East German Ercona or Ercona II cameras with the 3,5/105 coated Tessar are very good. The Voigtländer Bessa I with Color-Skopar is also very good. I have compared the Ercona and Bessa I, and they are equally sharp. The image quality should be the same as with the Super Ikonta with a coated Tessar. They are all front-cell focusing lenses. Of course, the more expensive Super Ikonta has a built in rangefinder, but you can always get an accessory rangefinder.

 

[DWThomas]

The East German Ercona or Ercona II cameras with the 3,5/105 coated Tessar are very good. The Voigtländer Bessa I with Color-Skopar is also very good. I have compared the Ercona and Bessa I, and they are equally sharp. The image quality should be the same as with the Super Ikonta with a coated Tessar. They are all front-cell focusing lenses. Of course, the more expensive Super Ikonta has a built in rangefinder, but you can always get an accessory rangefinder.

Yes, I have an Ercona II bought in 2009 from certo6 that gives a decent account of itself. I do vaguely recall paying more like $175 US for it, but from certo6 that includes it being CLA'd and checked out. Heh, I was out using it along a local rail trail a couple of years back and a man and his young kid came cruising by. Guy stopped and just about dragged his kid over to me, pointing at the camera and telling the kid "Now that is a real camera!"

 

[mgb74]

I have a Tourist II with the Anaston lens. Quality is pretty good (especially given the large negative), but the camera is pretty large relative to the 50's era Zeiss Nettar I have. And the Kodak uses 620 film is a pain, so it doesn't get used.

 

[JPD]

Yes, I have an Ercona II bought in 2009 from certo6 that gives a decent account of itself. I do vaguely recall paying more like $175 US for it, but from certo6 that includes it being CLA'd and checked out. Heh, I was out using it along a local rail trail a couple of years back and a man and his young kid came cruising by. Guy stopped and just about dragged his kid over to me, pointing at the camera and telling the kid "Now that is a real camera!"

I think I paid about €40 for mine. I also had the first model Ercona for a while, also with the Tessar. Both with perfectly functioning Tempor shutters. Sturdy folders, based on the Ikonta. It's possible that some original tools from pre-WWII Zeiss Ikon in Dresden were used to make them.

I was on a walk with my father and outside the railway station a japanese tourist with a modern digital SLR wanted to take a picture of my Ercona II. Then when we left the train station a couple of american tourists saw my camera and one of them thought that since I was into classic photography I must be good at it, so she asked me to take a group photo of them with her camera.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Moskva-2 and Moskva-4 will be in better condition than original Zeiss, with coated optics. They are cheap.
I have Agfa-Billy Record and it is fine and funny camera as well. Not expensive, either.

 

[nosmok]

If you'd rather not re-roll your film to a 620 spool, and find anything with the Zeiss name priced higher just for that reason, and don't want to take a chance on a Russian camera, I would suggest the Franka Rolfix, with the wonderful Rodenstock Trinar 105 f/3.5 lens. It's scale focus only, but usually comes with the Compur Rapid shutter with speeds up to 1/500 sec, and takes amazing pictures. It's well built and pretty compact for a 6x9cm camera. Love mine.

 

[Bill Burk]

If this fits your budget, this is good timing

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fs-voigtlander-bessa-i-with-color-skopar-105mm-f3-5.174503/

 

[Donald Qualls]

Not for sale, but I've got a 1927 Voigtlander (can't put the two dots over the "a") "Rollfilmkamera" -- so named because apparently they didn't have more than one model to differentiate yet in '27. Got the Voigtlander version of a Tessar 105/4.5, dial-set Compur, light tight last time I used it (been a few years, likely to be out again in the next couple weeks). Very light, because it's mostly brass sheet and empty space. Excellent images, because biggish negative and a fine lens. Cost me ten bucks and the time to clean the shutter, but that was in 2004 or so.

 

[pbromaghin]

If this fits your budget, this is good timing

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fs-voigtlander-bessa-i-with-color-skopar-105mm-f3-5.174503/

Oh my. Top of the line Color Skopar with lower priced zone focusing.

M U S T R E S I S T G. A. S.

 

[eli griggs]

Thanks everyone, there is a lot to consider, and that Color Skopar does look tempting.

I just came off eBay, searching 6x9 cm folders and Name + Condition really does drive the price of Super Ikontas up.

Having to get my 6x6 cm CLAed puts things into perspective and is one thing, Having to do the same with any camera is a huge factor in buying the larger folder, and there are so many nice cameras out there, like the one listed here on Photrio, I will have to see what's doable right now and what has to wait.

 

[pbromaghin]

I've been lusting for a 6x9 for about 8 years, and this one from darinwc is about the most attractive one I've seen. The zone focusing makes for much less expense, and some people say the Color Skopar (a Tessar copycat) is better than the Tessar. But I already have a 6x45 Super Ikonta and a 6x6 Ikonta (Novar), and my wife has this strange idea that a guy can have too many cameras. The zone focusing with a depth of field indicator, as this one has, is quicker and much less fiddly than looking through 2 different windows to focus and then compose. If you load iso 400 you can shoot pretty closed down, giving a lot of depth of field and plenty of margin in focusing for most applications.

You would do well to get this one. Not only is it a low-priced entry into medium format, you might never need to buy another one.

Hmmmmm….. Maybe if I sell the 645...

 

[DWThomas]

Yes -- "budget" is a somewhat vague term! I paid less for any of the used medium format cameras I've acquired in recent history than the cost of one lens for the Canon EOS-M5 I bought a year or so back, and that's the consumer crop frame mirror-less camera -- the full frame R series is $$$$.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Especially worth noting, that Bessa above is a 6x4.5 -- if you can find the format mask. There's a selector on the viewfinder that masks it for the smaller format, and you advance film by bringing each number to both ruby windows in succession, thus getting 16 on a roll. I've got a camera that does that, and has the format mask -- it's kind of a neat feature,. The 105 mm lens is a nice portrait length on 6x4.5 (for which a 60-70 mm is "normal"). Like getting two cameras in one -- if you can find the format mask. Or fabricate one (shouldn't be hard compared to what some folks do for medium format cameras).

 

[pbromaghin]

Donald Qualls - good point.

There's a 6x9 Super Ikonta on ebay right now from Victory Camera in Boulder for $250 BIN that has the mask. It might need a CLA, though, can't tell for sure.

 

[wyofilm]

The ‘Steve O’Nions’ YouTube channel has a couple off recent videos with the Econa II 6x9 folding camera.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Donald Qualls - good point.

There's a 6x9 Super Ikonta on ebay right now from Victory Camera in Boulder for $250 BIN that has the mask. It might need a CLA, though, can't tell for sure.

The Super Ikonta with mask is 6x6 and 6x9, same as a Moskva 5 if you can find one with the mask (or find a mask to add to one you have). That's also a nice combo. You can tell which it is by looking at the back. If it's got two windows on a line parallel to the film path, it's 6x9/6x4.5, if one's center and the other's in a corner, it's 6x9/6x6. I don't know of any that did all three.

I should hope for $250 that it's fully functioning and has the RF adjusted (they seldom need it, they used counter-rotating prisms like the Moskva 5).

 

[pbromaghin]

I've been lusting for a 6x9 for about 8 years, and this one from darinwc is about the most attractive one I've seen. The zone focusing makes for much less expense, and some people say the Color Skopar (a Tessar copycat) is better than the Tessar. But I already have a 6x45 Super Ikonta and a 6x6 Ikonta (Novar), and my wife has this strange idea that a guy can have too many cameras. The zone focusing with a depth of field indicator, as this one has, is quicker and much less fiddly than looking through 2 different windows to focus and then compose. If you load iso 400 you can shoot pretty closed down, giving a lot of depth of field and plenty of margin in focusing for most applications.

You would do well to get this one. Not only is it a low-priced entry into medium format, you might never need to buy another one.

Hmmmmm….. Maybe if I sell the 645...

Talked myself into it. Check's in the mail...

 

[eli griggs]

The main reason I want a 6x9 cm format, is even though I have the 6x6 cm Hasselblad and the Super IKonta B, which needs a CLA, is I do no want to crop the 6x6 format enough to print the same image area that the 6x9 natively defines.

I also want one as a easy to pack and carry addition to the Hasselblad, which otherwise, with the eventual addition f a couple or three lenses, can give me most every thing I'd need short of L.Format kit.

As I am getting on now, I hope to one day, be able to begin taking extended road trips to all the places, (or nearly all) in this great Nation, that I should have done when I was in my twenties and had the saLike my me basic set-up I have now, and the time and money to do it.

Like my artwork, paintings, woodprints, etc, I plan on doing what is interesting to me, no an audience, and that means time is needed to find the 'right scenes', which can be very far from the 'popular veiw points' of which we have so many, so having the kit to make more than a 'snap' on hand, before you even pull out of the drive means much to me.

I'm no longer the young man who could walk out the door with a camera, extra rolls in my pocket and a single camera and maybe two small lenses, and some filters and 'get the shots I wanted on a week or two, travels.

Solo, I could get by today with an f150 and a shell on the back and a tent for when I did no want to bed down inside the camper cover, or so I tell myself, but whatever way I do go, I want to know I have what I need for the next weeks shooting.

Too much info, but there it is, now if I can only find the 6x9 (Super Ikonta C?), I need, in working order.

IMO.

Be Safe, Be Healthy and Godspeed to all.

 

[Kyle M.]

Check out Fedka.com. He currently has 3 models of Moskva folders made in Russia in the late 50's, two of which are under $100. I currently have Moskva 5 I purchased from him about a year ago and it works amazingly well, as someone who has owned Super Ikonta's I can say the Moskva's are built just as well if not maybe a little better. He currently has a Moskva 2 for $90 this model has a 110mm F=4.5 lens and B/1-2/250 shutter no flash sync or self timer. The Moskva 4 is $85 that model adds dual format 6x9 and 6x6 with the same lens and shutter, it also adds flash sync. The Moskva 5 which is what I have is $145 with the 6x6 mask. It adds a redesigned top plate, self timer, and 105mm F=3.5 lens. It also has a removable back as opposed to the hinged back. All three models have coupled rangefinders and are in fact Super Ikonta copies. If you can deal with the 110/4.5 the 2 and 4 are absolute bargains. Even at $150 I found the 5 to be a bargain and it has the slightly faster lens and includes the 6x6 mask.

I know some people really hate the Soviet cameras but I have had nothing but good luck with the ones I've owned. Yuri at Fedka checks out everything he sells and he will definately make it right if you get a lemon.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I owned a Moskva 5 (random eBay purchase) for 3-4 years in the early 00s -- I'll second Kyle. Good camera, and very inexpensive compared to the Zeiss branded. This was another camera built in the Soviet Union on actual Zeiss factory machines (Moskva 2) and then upgraded over time; by the end of the run, they were a better camera in many ways than the pre-War Zeiss models they started as. The flip-up rangefinder prism housing is a cool feature, too -- down to fold the camera, up to use the RF.

 

[eli griggs]

I'll take a look.

Cheers.

 

[Huss]

I bought a perfect Zeiss Ikon Nettar 517/2 for $80. Used it to take this:





Used my Mockba 5 to take this:





I bought mine from Fedka.

Used my free Brownie



to take this:

 

[Donald Qualls]

This is from my Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera:

TMY, HC-110 G, hand held.

Here's a narrow crop from the above...