Brooks Jensen on niches and APUG

[jstraw]

Bob F and jstraw,
Would this just be an indication of the true confusion of the CAM era?

Dan

I can feel the circle of confusion widening.

 

[Struan Gray]

APUG isn't a niche, it's a spandrel.

Necessary, but not sufficient.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

APUG isn't a niche, it's a spandrel.

Necessary, but not sufficient.

Yes, but as Stephen Jay Gould would ask, was it intended to be so or is it an accident of evolution?

I've seen many interesting responses so far, and I tend to agree with the idea that creating a niche is not stealing someone else's thunder. But in parallel with the nichification of markets/academia/etc, another aspect that grew up importantly is inter-niche/disciplines relationships. Somehow, Amazon knows about all the niches you inhabit and instead of suggesting books in only one of them, it pushes them together. In academia, there's a long tradition of bringing together specialists from various horizons to work on a specific, general problem (e.g new media, sustainable development, health policy).

Maybe APUG will strike an interesting partnership with the association of left foot podiatrists.

 

[Struan Gray]

Yes, but as Stephen Jay Gould would ask, was it intended to be so or is it an accident of evolution?

Weak Emergence. APUGers are the dust bunnies of the photographic world.

The last time I logged on to the US version of Amazon, my personalised recommendations included some photography monographs, a few children's books, and volumes on gardening, image processing, poetry and anal sex. I swear to God I cannot think of a single mouse click I have ever made in my entire online history that would lead them to think I was interested in gardening.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Hmm, analog anal sex. That's something I didn't think of.

 

[jstraw]

Weak Emergence. APUGers are the dust bunnies of the photographic world.

The last time I logged on to the US version of Amazon, my personalised recommendations included some photography monographs, a few children's books, and volumes on gardening, image processing, poetry and anal sex. I swear to God I cannot think of a single mouse click I have ever made in my entire online history that would lead them to think I was interested in gardening.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on APUG.

 

[catem]

Yes, but as Stephen Jay Gould would ask, was it intended to be so or is it an accident of evolution?

I've seen many interesting responses so far, and I tend to agree with the idea that creating a niche is not stealing someone else's thunder. But in parallel with the nichification of markets/academia/etc, another aspect that grew up importantly is inter-niche/disciplines relationships. Somehow, Amazon knows about all the niches you inhabit and instead of suggesting books in only one of them, it pushes them together. In academia, there's a long tradition of bringing together specialists from various horizons to work on a specific, general problem (e.g new media, sustainable development, health policy).

Maybe APUG will strike an interesting partnership with the association of left foot podiatrists.

Or could it be that 'Amazon' is like 'Apug', and the 'specialists from various horizons' are the landscape photographers, the portrait photographers, the macro photographers, the alternative processes photographers, and we all come together here to work on a 'specific general problem' within Ethics and Philosophy, or fibre-based printing or.... .

Or do you think I'm getting narrow-minded

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Or could it be that 'Amazon' is like 'Apug', and the 'specialists from various horizons' are the landscape photographers, the portrait photographers, the macro photographers, the alternative processes photographers, and we all come together here to work on a 'specific general problem' within Ethics and Philosophy, or fibre-based printing or.... .

Or do you think I'm getting narrow-minded

Well, someone's niche is another one's domain! Who knows!

But I sure would like to know what you think of the meaning of Poussin's Et in Arcadia Ego...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I think in some ways it was an 18th century equivalent to "Kilroy was here", or "there but for the grace of God go I". Et In Arcadia Ego literally means, "I too was in Arcadia". It is intended as a memento morii, a reminder of the fragility and impermanence of human life.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

The interpretation of Et in Arcadia Ego that is becoming popular these days is about some anagramma that reveals putative secrets about the life of Jesus. It's another fallout from Da Vinci Code, so I think it's best to discredit it.

What is interesting about the tomb inscription is twofold: first, a standard interpretation is that because there is a tomb in Arcadia, the land of Good Times, "et in arcadia ego" means that death is also in Arcadia. Second, there is the question of who is in the tomb. If the "ego" represents death, it would mean that death too is in Arcadia, but that it has died there, which might be a paradox. On the other hand, if it is someone, who could that be?

I think there is a grammatical ambiguity regarding the phrase in that it reads both as "I too am in Arcadia" (meaning, I am in one place, and though it comes as a surprise to you, it is in Arcadia, like many other people) and "I am in Arcadia as well" (meaning, I am in many places, and Arcadia is one of them).

 

[FrankB]

I rather think Mr Jensen began with a (in my view, invalid) conclusion and worked backwards from there.

He doesn't really explain how a magazine devoted to purely traditional "wet" techniques is any more specialised than one dedicated to purely "fine art" photography (i.e. Lenswork) - I would hypothesise because he can't.

He then leaps athletically to the conclusion that because a person is interested in a specialised form of photography they are therefore unable to be interested in painting, poetry, etc. etc... which is just plain silly!

He seems to be talking purely for the sound of his own voice (and that's five minutes of my life I won't be getting back!)

<sigh>

Pity. I had a higher opinion of him (past tense).

 

[jstraw]

Follow the money. What's his agenda?

 

[Jim Chinn]

One of the great problems with today's www is that bloggers and podcasters feel that they need to spew with a constant barrage of posts regardless if they have anything logical or cogent to say.

 

[jd callow]

The interpretation of Et in Arcadia Ego that is becoming popular these days is about some anagramma that reveals putative secrets about the life of Jesus. It's another fallout from Da Vinci Code, so I think it's best to discredit it.

What is interesting about the tomb inscription is twofold: first, a standard interpretation is that because there is a tomb in Arcadia, the land of Good Times, "et in arcadia ego" means that death is also in Arcadia. Second, there is the question of who is in the tomb. If the "ego" represents death, it would mean that death too is in Arcadia, but that it has died there, which might be a paradox. On the other hand, if it is someone, who could that be?

I think there is a grammatical ambiguity regarding the phrase in that it reads both as "I too am in Arcadia" (meaning, I am in one place, and though it comes as a surprise to you, it is in Arcadia, like many other people) and "I am in Arcadia as well" (meaning, I am in many places, and Arcadia is one of them).

Stop trying to make me think.

 

[bjorke]

One of the great problems with today's www is that bloggers and podcasters feel that they need to spew with a constant barrage of posts regardless if they have anything logical or cogent to say.

You're just now getting that?

It's the PRIMARY PROBLEM of the internet. Quantity registers with search engines, which are completely mute on the subject of quality.

 

[copake_ham]

You're just now getting that?

It's the PRIMARY PROBLEM of the internet. Quantity registers with search engines, which are completely mute on the subject of quality.

Yes, on this,

I don't remember the actual statistic - but I recently read that in just the past year or two such a mind-blowing amount of info has been produced that it exceeds to sum total of everything that humans had ever produced beforehand!

We are literally drowing in a tidal wave of info - little of it of any real import or quality!

EDIT: I guess some would say this about this very post!

 

[lenswork]

Did any of you guys happen to catch the big Adobe webcast yesterday? They dropped a small factoid that had me shaking in my boots -- they said that there are 35 million blogs currently on the Internet and a new one launched every second. Jeez. If this is true, I'm going to have to learn to read much, much faster!
BTW, thanks for all the feedback. I'm always greatful for the added perspective I pick up from your posts. Keeps me thinking -- which, I think, is a good thing.
Brooks

 

[Sean]

You're just now getting that?

It's the PRIMARY PROBLEM of the internet. Quantity registers with search engines, which are completely mute on the subject of quality.

I thought maybe Digg.com might have been a step in the right direction but judging from some of the articles making it to the homepage... ugh. Still one of my favorite sites though.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Stop trying to make me think.

Sorry John. Here, I've heard that Lindsay Lohan is out of rehab. OMG, can you believe it?? Wow, ponies!!!

 

[jd callow]

hehehe

 

[reub2000]

We've been forced into a niche. The world at large has forgotten about film. So our choices are either to become a niche and have a little corner where we can isolate ourselves from the mainstream or to use what the mainstream uses.

 

[eddym]

Hmm, analog anal sex. That's something I didn't think of.

Hmmm... anal sex. Doesn't it sorta by definition have to be digital?

 

[Sean]

We've been forced into a niche. The world at large has forgotten about film. So our choices are either to become a niche and have a little corner where we can isolate ourselves from the mainstream or to use what the mainstream uses.

I think technology in the art world can be a great thing when it recognizes itself as a new medium and can stand on it's own. It is when technology demands and arrogantly touts it has completely replaced a previous traditional medium that I feel ill. It looks like many traditional oriented artists (photographers, painters, musicians, sculptors, etc) will be forced into niche areas because of the way technology steamrolls everything in it's path. What other choice do we have if we choose to continue doing what we love? Maybe the art world needs a doomsday wheel that is rated on completed work done in x amount of mouse clicks. Currently the wheel is on around 20 clicks, once it gets to 3 clicks then 1 click it's all over

 

[bjorke]

there are 35 million blogs currently on the Internet and a new one launched every second. Jeez. If this is true, I'm going to have to learn to read much, much faster!

Not to worry. Even three years ago, it was recognized that most blogs never make it past the first two or three weeks, most are started by young teen girls, and the overwhelming majority of them -- while "on the net" forever due to cheap storage -- are completely abandoned by their creators.

(I had been considering placing what follows on my own blog. Maybe I still will.)

What bothers me most about the Lenswork podcast is it's inherent non-webness.

How can this be? Isn't podcasting the New Web 2.0 Thing?

Well, no. Podcasts are a COMPONENT of "web 2.0" as we now experience it, in that there is a democratization of "radio" -- you can set up podcasts subscriptions and spend your morning commute listening to what YOU want, when you want to, rather than being resigned to listen to whatever Rush Limbaugh clone is spouting on the regular radio in your area at, say, 7:40 to 8:00 AM. And yeah, anyone with a mic & a mac can start up a podcast (my teen daughter has one, to echo the comment above).

What's distressing about Lenswork's expansion of podcasting is its one-sidedness, a factor that overpowers its technological possibilities. In Web-2.0-land, web presence is a kind of conversation. Yet as Lenswork has expanded its podcasting, it has restricted almost all possibility of conversation -- removed the forums on its Dead Link Removed made feedback awkward (oddly, "podcast" is not an available item in the feedback topic pulldown menu) -- essentially pursuing a 20-century media paradigm: that of the central microphone that emits all the opinions available. Small wonder that in recent podcasts Brooks sounds increasingly like he's talking to himself, given that opportunities for other voices have been shuttered.

Lenswork has used technology like Extended and the podcast not to strike new gold, but rather in an attempt to more deeply-mine the existing vein. Are there customers of Extended who didn't already buy Lenswork? I doubt it. And the same goes for listeners of the podcast.

Now of course Brooks is not really totalitarian Minister of Culture. At least not past the doorstep of Lenswork. The world is full of many opinions, many voices. What really happens in our wild wild web world -- and this is where the weepy music starts -- is that by such moves Lenswork increasingly marginalizes itself. That is, it continues to aim soley at what it perceives as its known niche: that of what it rather self-consciously defines as "fine art photography" (as if that definition itself were so conveniently contained, available to be validated by a magazine). It grabs at the gizmos of modern media, but not the culture. Sadly, the world will go on regardless of the opinions of self-isolating shut-ins. While Private or Focus or Dead Link Removed (and many others, including websites) may not have the luxuriously-printed pages of Lenswork, they are still there, ready and hungry and open.

 

[Roger Hicks]

...by such moves Lenswork increasingly marginalizes itself. That is, it continues to aim soley at what it perceives as its known niche...

Easily done, and not just by Lenswork...

A fine observation. Thanks.

Cheers,

R.