Bronica S2 Question

[Cholentpot]

Hi,

I was given a S2 full kit to check out and to price. The shutter fires and film advances and it seems to be in decent working condition. The lens 75 2.8 nikkor has fungus though and I can't seem to get the veiwfinder off the top.

The body has peeling trim all over the place and I would value 'fair' to 'ugly' on the KEH standard. It did come with a darkslide.

What would you think this camera is worth untested?

 

[Kirks518]

Knowing KEH, they would probably rate both as Ugly, and if you were lucky, Bargain. They are very conservative, and a lens with fungus with typically be Ugly, and a body with peeling leather they usually hit at Ugly or even As-Is. Certainly As-Is if the VF won't come off.

As for value, it's going to depend if someone if willing to take a lens with fungus, and a beat up body. It's at best a user camera from your description, and I'd imagine it would fetch on the lower end of the ebay scale.

 

[Cholentpot]

Knowing KEH, they would probably rate both as Ugly, and if you were lucky, Bargain. They are very conservative, and a lens with fungus with typically be Ugly, and a body with peeling leather they usually hit at Ugly or even As-Is. Certainly As-Is if the VF won't come off.

As for value, it's going to depend if someone if willing to take a lens with fungus, and a beat up body. It's at best a user camera from your description, and I'd imagine it would fetch on the lower end of the ebay scale.

So if I low-ball the owner I shouldn't feel all that guilty? Cash no shipping, I get a knock off hassy for a half-a Benjamin. That fungus though...

 

[Alan Gales]

An S2 with 75mm in real nice shape may be worth $200. Yes, there are quite a few on Ebay for more money "buy it now" but they are not selling. I sold a mint condition S2a with 75mm lens a few years ago for $300 but the S2a's are worth quite a bit more due to the upgraded steel film advance gear. Earlier gears stripped easily.

There are plenty of Nikkor 75mm lenses out there. I've seen very clean examples sell for as low as $50. With fungus you could try to clean it or pitch it. You really can't get much for the lenses unless you have the rare 40mm Nikkor. It's a peach of a lens! I sold one of those for $400. It was in good but well used condition (missing paint) but the glass was clean.

With the condition of the camera and the fungus in the lens I'd want it for nothing so low ball away and don't feel guilty.

If you do buy the camera and it works then you can buy lenses for cheap. I sold my excellent Bronica 150mm portrait lens and only got $75 on Ebay. The Nikkor and Bronica lenses are great except the Nikkor 135mm is a bit soft but you may like it for portraits. The Nikkor 50mm and 200mm lenses are nice.

I really like the early Bronica cameras and lenses but the problem is that the cameras are so old. I don't know of anyone who works on them anymore. Figure them as disposable so buy cheap.

 

[Cholentpot]

An S2 with 75mm in real nice shape may be worth $200. Yes, there are quite a few on Ebay for more money "buy it now" but they are not selling. I sold a mint condition S2a with 75mm lens a few years ago for $300 but the S2a's are worth quite a bit more due to the upgraded steel film advance gear. Earlier gears stripped easily.

There are plenty of Nikkor 75mm lenses out there. I've seen very clean examples sell for as low as $50. With fungus you could try to clean it or pitch it. You really can't get much for the lenses unless you have the rare 40mm Nikkor. It's a peach of a lens! I sold one of those for $400. It was in good but well used condition (missing paint) but the glass was clean.

With the condition of the camera and the fungus in the lens I'd want it for nothing so low ball away and don't feel guilty.

If you do buy the camera and it works then you can buy lenses for cheap. I sold my excellent Bronica 150mm portrait lens and only got $75 on Ebay. The Nikkor and Bronica lenses are great except the Nikkor 135mm is a bit soft but you may like it for portraits. The Nikkor 50mm and 200mm lenses are nice.

I really like the early Bronica cameras and lenses but the problem is that the cameras are so old. I don't know of anyone who works on them anymore. Figure them as disposable so buy cheap.

Thanks.

I started taking the camera apart and it'll need a bit of work before it can join a stable. I already fixed the viewfinder latch and it'll need new seals between the focusing screens and the mirror. I'm not going to offer much for it it.

The cranking on the think is insane though. To cock it you really need to push.

 

[Alan Gales]

The film advance should be easy so the camera needs a CLA. The brass gear strips easily so when you advance the film you should use the knob instead of the crank even after a CLA. Later S2a's and EC's had a steel gear so this problem was eliminated.

If you don't know how to remove the film back you just push in on the dark slide. It sounds crazy but works quite well.

 

[Cholentpot]

The film advance should be easy so the camera needs a CLA. The brass gear strips easily so when you advance the film you should use the knob instead of the crank even after a CLA. Later S2a's and EC's had a steel gear so this problem was eliminated.

If you don't know how to remove the film back you just push in on the dark slide. It sounds crazy but works quite well.

Film advance is smooth until the the shutter needs to be cocked. It cocks with a crack! but from what I've seen it's normal.

 

[Alan Gales]

Film advance is smooth until the the shutter needs to be cocked. It cocks with a crack! but from what I've seen it's normal.

Ok. I misunderstood you and thought it was hard to advance.

How do you like the sound of the shutter being tripped? When I first bought an EC, It was so loud that I thought I had broken the camera!

 

[papagene]

Film advance is smooth until the the shutter needs to be cocked. It cocks with a crack! but from what I've seen it's normal.

A-yup... that final turn of the knob sure sounds like you are breaking the camera. I took my S2a out to the Tucson Mtn Park last Friday and the sound of the shutter firing echoed of the mountain walls!!

 

[Cholentpot]

Ok. I misunderstood you and thought it was hard to advance.

How do you like the sound of the shutter being tripped? When I first bought an EC, It was so loud that I thought I had broken the camera!

I thought my Mamiya 645 was loud. Nope.

I like the loud and bawdy cameras so it fits my style.

 

[Cholentpot]

A-yup... that final turn of the knob sure sounds like you are breaking the camera. I took my S2a out to the Tucson Mtn Park last Friday and the sound of the shutter firing echoed of the mountain walls!!

A crunchy crack and feels final and I expect pieces of plastic and metal shavings to fall out of the body.

 

[RichardJack]

Hi,
You have to press the finder release in hard to get the finder to pop off. I assume that you mean by "not tested" that you have not run a roll of film through it. If this is the case I suggest that you do before selling it. You might have a light leak which would bring the value straight down. The peeling leatherette covering is an easy fix with Pliobond contact cement. I'd toss or sell the lens AS-IS, it makes the camera almost worthless. As mentioned by others, I've seen 75mm f2.8 Nikon P lenses go for about $50 (fungus free). In it's present condition, untested with a fungus lens your camera might be worth $50. Your S2 can be as old as 1964 and they were known not to have held up as well as the beefed up S2A model. Do you know the history of this camera? That would effect the price. If you were to clean it up (not CLA), fix the leatherette and put a better lens on your still only looking at about $150-200. They can be purchased in like new condition for $250-300. I recently bought a 1975 version S2A black body with 75mm f2.8 P.C. lens for $300. If you plan on keeping and using it, look for a 75mm f2.8 H.C. lens (it's extra cost is worth it). A CLA and repairs will cost as much as another camera.
I agree with the sounds that camera makes, when I shot weddings with one years back it got everyone's attention in church. But you have to love it!
Rick

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I wouldn't put too much into it, especially if it's hard to crank. The S2 is prone to jamming. Some gears in it are relatively soft. There were many things corrected, when the S2a was released.

I had a complete S2a outfit and really liked the camera. But, I sold it all for an RB system, which itself is an excellent. The S2 series, with it's focal plane shutter, has a flash sync of about 1/40th. For my purposes, this makes the system a tripod only, still camera. The RB system has a between the lens shutter, so it has flash sync up to the fastest shutter speed.

There used to be this fabulous Bronica site several years ago, something like the Robert Maugam (sic?). Maybe someone else remembers it. I'm wondering if it could possibly be found on archive.org? Anything you wanted to know about Bronica was on that site. All the lenses, rare or otherwise, the different models, accessories, etc., etc.

The Nikon lenses for the S2 series were excellent. A clean version of the 75mm Nikkor is a very sharp lens. The Bronica series was the only medium format camera for which Nikon ever made lenses, I believe. Some of the lenses were relatively fast. For example, they made 75mm and 100mm lenses that were both f2.8 lenses. They also offered Zenzanon (non-Nikon) 40mm and 50mm lenses that were f2.8. When Bronica introduced a 645 version, they felt that format was too close to 35mm, and that to continue using Nikon lenses, would be giving too much leverage to a potential competitor.

 

[Cholentpot]

I wouldn't put too much into it, especially if it's hard to crank. The S2 is prone to jamming. Some gears in it are relatively soft. There were many things corrected, when the S2a was released.

I had a complete S2a outfit and really liked the camera. But, I sold it all for an RB system, which itself is an excellent. The S2 series, with it's focal plane shutter, has a flash sync of about 1/40th. For my purposes, this makes the system a tripod only, still camera. The RB system has a between the lens shutter, so it has flash sync up to the fastest shutter speed.

There used to be this fabulous Bronica site several years ago, something like the Robert Maugam (sic?). Maybe someone else remembers it. I'm wondering if it could possibly be found on archive.org? Anything you wanted to know about Bronica was on that site. All the lenses, rare or otherwise, the different models, accessories, etc., etc.

The Nikon lenses for the S2 series were excellent. A clean version of the 75mm Nikkor is a very sharp lens. The Bronica series was the only medium format camera for which Nikon ever made lenses, I believe. Some of the lenses were relatively fast. For example, they made 75mm and 100mm lenses that were both f2.8 lenses. They also offered Zenzanon (non-Nikon) 40mm and 50mm lenses that were f2.8. When Bronica introduced a 645 version, they felt that format was too close to 35mm, and that to continue using Nikon lenses, would be giving too much leverage to a potential competitor.

It looks like I'll be getting it for about $40. The crank works smoothly, I just wasn't used to the cocking mechanism. I developed a roll that I passed through at it looks alright, although I messed up with the flash sync. I already replaced the foam under the Fresnel and I'm going to need to replace the seals on the film back. Some day down the road I hope to stumble across a cleaner 75 2.8 but for now it looks like it'll have to do.

 

[choiliefan]

You put the foam above the fresnel and groundglass, no?

 

[Cholentpot]

You put the foam above the fresnel and groundglass, no?

uh-oh...

 

[frank]

If I remember correctly, the foam pushes the screen up. Could be wrong though.

 

[Alan Gales]

If I remember correctly, the foam pushes the screen up. Could be wrong though.

Frank, you are correct. The foam is installed first and then the screen added on top. Good luck finding replacement foam though. I've read that moleskin is a great replacement and there is an article on the web about installation.

 

[frank]

Thanks Alan. I like it when my memory proves correct! I do remember that I bought adhesive backed foam the correct thickness in a drugstore, meant to cushion/protect foot bunions from rubbing on shoes.

 

[Alan Gales]

Thanks Alan. I like it when my memory proves correct! I do remember that I bought adhesive backed foam the correct thickness in a drugstore, meant to cushion/protect foot bunions from rubbing on shoes.

Sounds good. Like you say, you need the correct thickness otherwise focus is off.

Here is the moleskin solution:

https://www.scribd.com/document/142186376/The-Bronica-Focus-Problem

 

[Cholentpot]

Sounds good. Like you say, you need the correct thickness otherwise focus is off.

Here is the moleskin solution:

https://www.scribd.com/document/142186376/The-Bronica-Focus-Problem

Ok, I checked I installed the new foam right. I used the foamy foam pad stuff. My test roll seemed to be in focus so no sweat there...now to dig up some 220 film...

 

[choiliefan]

There's some confusion here. The fresnel is inserted into the body cavity first, followed by the ground glass. This is then topped by the foam which is held down by the frame which is then screwed down.

Check out this apug thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Alan Gales]

There's some confusion here. The fresnel is inserted into the body cavity first, followed by the ground glass. This is then topped by the foam which is held down by the frame which is then screwed down. We're talking about the S2 camera here.

Sorry. The confusion is my fault. My memory was a bit cloudy. I could have sworn that the screen rested on top of the foam. I forgot all about that carrier that flips up to remove the screen. I had to replace the foam on one of my EC's quite a few years ago. You do clean the carrier and install the foam and then replace the screen. Like you say, once you flip the carrier back into place the foam ends up on top of the focussing screen pushing down on it.

Here is a picture of an EC which should be quite similar to your S2. https://www.flickr.com/photos/raulm/5489958546/in/photostream/

 

[Cholentpot]

There's some confusion here. The fresnel is inserted into the body cavity first, followed by the ground glass. This is then topped by the foam which is held down by the frame which is then screwed down.

Check out this apug thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I glued the foam in place. I guess I didn't need too.

Any advice for resealing the film mag? That's my next step...

 

[Alan Gales]

I glued the foam in place. I guess I didn't need too.

Any advice for resealing the film mag? That's my next step...

Try Jon Goodman. I've read that he used to sell kits for the early Bronica film backs. http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html