Bronica S2 light leak

[negativefunk]

Hi all,

I took a sample roll with a Bronica S2, and while it all seems nicely working, there is some apparent darkening in the negative between the frames.
It does not seem to affect the pictures, an it happens regularly (intensity varies somewhat, this is the point where it is most apparent).

As I am not planning of keeping it, I would like to know why it happens, if someone has a clue, in case it is something I can remedy

 

[Don_ih]

There might be light sealing material behind this plate:

that has disintegrated. The light must be from either the top or bottom of the film back, at the edge where that plate joins the shell.

 

[negativefunk]

Thanks Don, another forum member suggested the same thing and it makes sense. I'll have a go at replacing it there.
It turns out that most pictures focus did not fall where intended so I think I have to replace also the foam where the focussing glass rests, it seems a common problem.

I'll update once I run a new roll with these two things fixed!

 

[Don_ih]

Good luck! I only know one person with one of these cameras and he's had an endless stream of problems with it. Hopefully, yours does better than his.

 

[reddesert]

First, also make sure the back is fitting tightly against the body.

IIRC, you can take off that front plate of the back by removing the many small screws around the edge. If this back has the safety roller blind curtain that is pushed across by the darkslide, watch out as it may go sproing! and roll up.

 

[reddesert]

There's also some felt at the back door of the back, both near the hinge and near the latches. Check the condition of that. Although not obviously at the right place for such a leak, the fact that the leak is outside the frame and runs across the full length left-right of the film, suggests that it could be coming from somewhere behind the film gate, and perhaps somewhere that runs across the film rather than along it (like the back door, but not like the darkslide slot). The behind-film-gate tends to rule out my suggestion of a loose fit of back to body, but that's an easy thing to check anyway.

 

[itsdoable]

That is light leaking around the other side of the film rollers. On that back (Not the insert) there are thin rollers at the top and bottom. The bottom roller leaks light sometime when there are internal reflections or lots of sky lighting up the bottom of the film gate, allowing some light to scatter between the film gate and roller to the other side.

Light scatters behind this roller.

This happens with Hasselblad film backs too.

If you are seeing this a lot, check for internal light reflections or missing baffles, and/or use a lens hood to limit the amount of light that is not part of the image.

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

Hey negative funk, were you ever able to solve this issue? I'm experiencing a very similar issue and I also have those light leaks between frames.

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

That is light leaking around the other side of the film rollers. On that back (Not the insert) there are thin rollers at the top and bottom. The bottom roller leaks light sometime when there are internal reflections or lots of sky lighting up the bottom of the film gate, allowing some light to scatter between the film gate and roller to the other side.

View attachment 374133
Light scatters behind this roller.

This happens with Hasselblad film backs too.

If you are seeing this a lot, check for internal light reflections or missing baffles, and/or use a lens hood to limit the amount of light that is not part of the image.

Do you know of any fixes?

 

[itsdoable]

Do you know of any fixes?

No - that's just the way it is.

However, the light leak you are showing on the previous post is likely not from the design of the rollers, which usually stays in the rebate, and only by the rollers. The leak you are exhibiting is all around the frame, and is probably coming from somewhere else. Can you show the whole negative, including the rebate and neighboring images?

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

No - that's just the way it is.

However, the light leak you are showing on the previous post is likely not from the design of the rollers, which usually stays in the rebate, and only by the rollers. The leak you are exhibiting is all around the frame, and is probably coming from somewhere else. Can you show the whole negative, including the rebate and neighboring images?

Hey thank you for the quick reply.
My scanner isn't working right now, but last night I was able to grab this scan and not that good of quality, so if you need some more examples I do have some photos of the negatives directly after development that might be a bit clearer than here.

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

strange update, just developed my second test roll. After finding out the first was experiencing light leaks I went into my darkroom and switched out the film holders in two of the backs i had to see if it was the one back causing this (i lost around 6 shots off the roll because the shutter count resets to zero once you open the back) I then shot the remaining 3 shots to see if the light leaks were caused by the specific back. My results were strange as the first three photos on the roll (from the original back that i'm pretty sure i shot the original roll with) had none of these issues (all these photos were taken inside at night with not too much direct light hitting the film back area) the final 3 shots from today with the different film back has the same light leak issue as the first roll, though this time I was shooting in similar light as those with my pictured light leaks.

 

[itsdoable]

Re: Smilin's light leak from negatives shown on Post #11:

The leak refereed to on the OP's thread topic is visible between the frames, and is confined to the rebate. This is typical, and does not affect the image.

The light leak that is affecting your images appears on 3 sides (with some evidence on the 4th side) and is NOT in the rebate, thus it it coming from the film gate. I suspect it is either from the dark slide seal, or the seal between the back and the camera. One would have to inspect the back and camera to diagnose it further. Or you could put some black tape over the dark slide slot and around the back/body seam, but personally I prefer finding the source of the leak and fixing it.

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

Re: Smilin's light leak from negatives shown on Post #11:

The leak refereed to on the OP's thread topic is visible between the frames, and is confined to the rebate. This is typical, and does not affect the image.

The light leak that is affecting your images appears on 3 sides (with some evidence on the 4th side) and is NOT in the rebate, thus it it coming from the film gate. I suspect it is either from the dark slide seal, or the seal between the back and the camera. One would have to inspect the back and camera to diagnose it further. Or you could put some black tape over the dark slide slot and around the back/body seam, but personally I prefer finding the source of the leak and fixing it.

Do you know of any videos showing a full S2 film back light seal replacement? I found a (semi) repair guide on another thread with very similar leaks to mine but I'd find a video to follow along to much better. Also, I had another 6x6 back and switched to that one but it has an issue where after it rolls to the first shot, it will not advance any further. Any ideas on how to fix that? Ended up testing my only other back (a 6x4.5) and after developing a test roll today i found no issues.
Thank you again for your replies. I was very surprised that someone replied.

 

[OAPOli]

It's not clear from your negative sheet where the light leaks are located. If it's only within the film gate then it could be coming from the camera body where the rear plate is screwed in? If they appear in the rebate area then you can redo all the seal in the back. Remove the front plate on the back and inspect.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Start with replacing the light seals and then let us know whether or not the problem was solved. We will continue to help you with the light leak if the seals were not enough.

 

[reddesert]

I could not parse the sequence of events described in post #12, but I would also check that the backs are firmly seated to the camera back, and that all of the mounting surfaces are nice and square.

I would like to test the location of the problem (for ex, tape up the dark slide slot, shine a little light around the body/back joint; then advance a couple of frames, tape up the body/back joint, and shine light around the dark slide slot), before disassembling. That way you don't take it apart to fix the wrong thing.

 

[itsdoable]

Do you know of any videos showing a full S2 film back light seal replacement? I found a (semi) repair guide on another thread with very similar leaks to mine but I'd find a video to follow along to much better. Also, I had another 6x6 back and switched to that one but it has an issue where after it rolls to the first shot, it will not advance any further. Any ideas on how to fix that? Ended up testing my only other back (a 6x4.5) and after developing a test roll today i found no issues.
Thank you again for your replies. I was very surprised that someone replied.

Never seen any videos on this back, I'm old school, I prefer still photos with clear text explications. And the service manuals.

RE: back that stops after the 1st shot - there's a pin in the body that triggers the back after the exposure, which allows the back to advance, the problem is probably the mating pin the back.

If you 645 back is working, then the leak is probably in the dark slide seal. The seal is made of spring metal with multiple corrugations, check to see that they are intact. With the uniform leak on your picture, I would think that the spring seal is missing, or no longer springing closed. However, dark slide leaks usually have a shadow at the edge, which I don't see.

 

[Smilin' Vic Coln]

Never seen any videos on this back, I'm old school, I prefer still photos with clear text explications. And the service manuals.

RE: back that stops after the 1st shot - there's a pin in the body that triggers the back after the exposure, which allows the back to advance, the problem is probably the mating pin the back.

If you 645 back is working, then the leak is probably in the dark slide seal. The seal is made of spring metal with multiple corrugations, check to see that they are intact. With the uniform leak on your picture, I would think that the spring seal is missing, or no longer springing closed. However, dark slide leaks usually have a shadow at the edge, which I don't see.

I was able to sort out the issues with the pin in the back with some oil, has been working fine since.
Do you have an example photo of what the seal should look like? So i can compare.

 

[itsdoable]

I was able to sort out the issues with the pin in the back with some oil, has been working fine since.
Do you have an example photo of what the seal should look like? So i can compare.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures.

There are at least 2 different types of seals. Early backs had a rubberised curtain that closed with the dart slide, later ones did not and had either a metal spring seal or a velour seal. This link shows one with a velour seal (I think).

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/527778-bronica-s2s2a-backs-newer-type-fixing-light-leaks/

Come to think of it, maybe the S series all had velour seals, and it's the EC series that had the metal spring seals... I have not had to fix these in a long time...