Bronica ETRS vs. Fuji GS645?

[crumpet8]

Hey,

So I am tossing up between these Tom as I’m looking for a 645 camera to sort of replace my 35mm shooting. I have other larger formats, but would like more shots on a roll and bigger negatives than 35mm.

Has anyone experience with the two cameras? My current 35mm is a Nikon f3 with 50mm lens (1.2kg) so this is a rough guide for portability.

 

[wiltw]

Gee, trying to decide between two very fundamentally different camera types: SLR vs. rangefinder.

Yeah, they both shoot 645, they both have leaf shutter lens, One has about 10 interchangeable lenses, the other has a fixed lens.

 

[pentaxuser]

OP you have told us about your weight limitation but you need to tell us about other requirements such as fixed lens v interchangeable, interchangeable backs v fixed back etc. to get the answers that help you.

pentaxuser

 

[Dan Daniel]

If you get the ETRSi , prism, and power winder, you'll have basically a bulky SLR with louder mirror slap.

 

[crumpet8]

OP you have told us about your weight limitation but you need to tell us about other requirements such as fixed lens v interchangeable, interchangeable backs v fixed back etc. to get the answers that help you.

pentaxuser

YEp sorry, I have primarily used SLRs but occasionally borrow a mamiya 7 which I also like, the camera I’m looking to “replace” has a normal lens that I rarely swap out and no ability to change the film mid roll. So a modular system is not a must. Close focusing would be nice, I’ve seen photos from the Fuji and it seems half body portrait so is the closest focusing distance, how about the bronic 75 and 150mm lenses?

Also, how easy is it to knock a rangefinder out of alignment?

 

[antmar]

I've used both cameras for many years. They are very different in many ways.
Fuji is a pocket-able lightweight camera while Bronica needs a big bag and it is much heavier.
Lenses (the 75mm) are both very very good and you will barely see any difference in image quality, in Bronica you can't go wrong with all focal lengths of the system, they are all really good and quite cheap.
It is easier to focus with rangefinder, especially in low light but it is always more pleasant, at least for me, to focus through the ground-glass. Rangefinder mis-alignment was never a problem to my Fuji.
Bronica is a loud monster but also Fuji is not the most silent leaf-shutter camera either and it has an unusual vibration for a leaf-shutter camera which limits in a degree the hand-shooting in slow shutter speeds but of course hand-shooting is far easier than with Bronica.
Bronica is a camera system base and it can be expanded to your needs while Fuji is tailor made to your needs if this is what you need.
Fuji can close focus to 1m, Bronica can focus much closer and more accurately. Macro shooting is easy with Bronica but impossible with Fuji
Fuji is not battery dependent as it needs a battery for the lightmeter only, Bronica isn't working without a battery but with a fresh battery will be functional for more than a year and maybe two.
Auto exposure mode with aperture priority in Bronica, if you buy the AE Prism, is a nice feature that you might need.
I also have to mention that in Fuji the shutter-aperture-focus levers are quite difficult to handle and after many years I always have to look carefully every time I want to change any of them to find the right one without turning the others. Handling of Bronica is very easy and you will feel familiar with it right from the first moment.
Viewfiner in Fuji is portrait oriented but soon you will be familiar with landscape shooting, Bronica is landscape oriented but you will need a prism to shoot in portrait orientation. Prism makes the Bronica camera much more easier to handle but also heavier and bulkier.
Fuji is known to have issues with light leaks from the bellows so remember to buy one with the bellows been replaced, this will live almost forever.
As an end I would like to discuss that comparing these two cameras is like comparing two worlds, discussing Fuji GS645 and Bronica RF645 would be an easier comparison.

Mentioned all these I still have the Fuji but I changed the Bronica to a Hasselblad V system.

 

[choiliefan]

Get the Bronica RF645 and you'll have the niftiest 645 rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.

 

[crumpet8]

I've used both cameras for many years. They are very different in many ways.
Fuji is a pocket-able lightweight camera while Bronica needs a big bag and it is much heavier.
Lenses (the 75mm) are both very very good and you will barely see any difference in image to a Hasselblad V system.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences! I appreciate it greatly Unfortunately the guy in our camera club selling his Bronica has decided that he would regret selling it so Im back at square one. The Fuji seems to have a lot of bad press about its durability so am worried about purchasing one and having a hard time selling if its a bad fit (market is very small in Scandinavia). I use a filter with BW as well and the example I am looking at doesnt come with the hood/filter holder so Im a little unsure about it.

I also read the weight of the etrsi incorrectly. I thought it was closer to 1200g. In which case I may as well just buy a 645 back for my V series. I guess the lightest 645 SLR with WLF is the mamiya 645 super or pro?

Get the Bronica RF645 and you'll have the niftiest 645 rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.

If I had the money I would! Looks like the closest 645 version of a mamiya 7

 

[choiliefan]

Another option is the Pentax 645 or 645N-series with auto focus. These are really great cameras. Light-weight with terrific lenses.

I actually used the Fuji for a few months and found it hard to nail the focus. The AF seems to be more of a zone thing rather than spot-on. I sold it and continued with the Pentax 645NII until cashing out on that system after lucking into a pristine ETR-Si outfit for very little money. The Pentax 645NII is a much quicker camera than the ETR-SI...

 

[crumpet8]

Another option is the Pentax 645 or 645N-series with auto focus. These are really great cameras. Light-weight with terrific lenses.

I actually used the Fuji for a few months and found it hard to nail the focus. The AF seems to be more of a zone thing rather than spot-on. I sold it and continued with the Pentax 645NII until cashing out on that system after lucking into a pristine ETR-Si outfit for very little money. The Pentax 645NII is a much quicker camera than the ETR-SI...

How much do they weigh with the normal lens? I borrowed a 67 for a while that I liked, but it was too much of a beast in the end Mmm, I just missed a good local deal on an ETR Si. about 500 Usd for a whole kit (3 lenses and two backs and finders). Unfortunately I started my hunt a little late and he sold it the same day I sent him a message. I think Im going to go back to the mamiya series. The N lenses were great when I was only scanning and I know the cameras well having had the pro TL before. I didnt have a darkroom when I owned the 645 so am very excited to get my hands on one and start printing (16x20).

The one Im looking at now is an older 1000s with 80mm 1.9. I figure I'll just buy into the system and upgrade to a pro or super if a good deal comes along. If the 1.9 isn't up to scratch in the darkroom as well I think I can sell it along and get the 2.8N for not so much more.

 

[wiltw]

I also read the weight of the etrsi incorrectly. I thought it was closer to 1200g. In which case I may as well just buy a 645 back for my V series. I guess the lightest 645 SLR with WLF is the mamiya 645 super or pro?



If I had the money I would! Looks like the closest 645 version of a mamiya 7

480 grams (ETR-Si main body only; without battery) -- stripped down and useless!

1,285 grams (with standard lens, Film Back Ei 120 and Waist-Level Finder E; (and a tiny amount of weight battery.) per Bronica owner manual, and is a usable configuration

A Mamiya M645 is 1385g with f/2.8 normal lens, film back, waist level finder (per Mamiya owner manual)

 

[macfred]

I have an ETRSi with WLF, additional prism finder AEIII and the speed grip. I use it mostly with the PE 75mm f/2.8 (though I own the 50mm and the 150mm too) and I like it for it's versatility and sometimes for the MLU.
Like antmar said - it's a heavy and clunky piece of gear.
I own several FUJI 645 (GA645, GA645W, GAZi - no GS) - those are lightweight and handy with great lenses - like them for travelling and hiking. I use them for about 4 or 5 years - no problems so far.
If I like to go really light I prefer my Rolleiflex 3.5F.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I would always choose the slr with interchangeable lenses rather than a fixed mount range finder.

 

[wiltw]

The Pentax 645 is 1320 grams, body (w/integrated grip) + filmback but without lens.

 

[RattyMouse]

I would always choose the slr with interchangeable lenses rather than a fixed mount range finder.

I would always, absolutely always, choose a rangefinder over an SLR.

 

[macfred]

I would always choose the slr with interchangeable lenses rather than a fixed mount range finder.

I would always, absolutely always, choose a rangefinder over an SLR.

It does no harm to use both kind of cameras ...

 

[RattyMouse]

It does no harm to use both kind of cameras ...

Yeah, I have an old Nikon FM2n for those times I feel like slumming.

90% of the time or more I'm using a rangefinder.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It does no harm to use both kind of cameras ...

When someone ask whether to buy camera A or camera B, they only want to buy one camera at that time.

 

[johnha]

I have a Mamiya 645 Pro (with winder & prism) - for me it sits better than an ERTSi because it operates more like a 35mm SLR (instant return mirror, 1/1000th shutter, faster lenses...) yet still has interchangeable backs. The ERTSi is much better if using flash but (if it'a anything like the SQ-B) feels clunkier to use. I'm still not convinced interchangeable backs & WLFs are particularly weather proof when the weather turns.

Interchangeable backs aren't that important to me now - if looking at 645 I'd also look at the Pentax (smaller if you want the fully loaded SLR feel - i.e. winder & prism) but I currently shoot a P67 and have the Mamiya for 645 if I want it.

I've thought about a 6x7, 6x9 and possibly 645 Fuji Rangefinder - but they seem expensive and hard to locate in the UK/Europe. The Bronica 645 also seems expensive and hard to find.

John.

 

[cooltouch]

I own a Bronica ETRSi along with a few lenses, extra backs, and the Speed Grip. The Speed Grip mounts to the camera same as the motor drive, but it has no motor. It does have a film crank lever, though, that advances the film with two strokes of the lever. With a plain prism or an AE prism mounted, the camera takes on the feel of a largish 35mm camera. I find it to be very easy to use in this fashion.

I also own several medium format rangefinders, albeit none that are 645. I have a few 6x6 rangefinders, a 6x6 TLR, and one 6x9. And, speaking of medium format systems, I also own a Pentax 67 with a few lenses -- what a beast, but I love it. I like having this sort of versatility and see no reason why I should limit myself to a single camera or system with such a fantastic film format.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you can afford it, why not get both? I certainly wouldn't mind adding a Fuji 645 to my collection, and I may do it some day.

 

[macfred]

... So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you can afford it, why not get both? I certainly wouldn't mind adding a Fuji 645 to my collection, and I may do it some day.

This !!

It does no harm to use both kind of cameras ...

 

[johnha]

I own a Bronica ETRSi along with a few lenses, extra backs, and the Speed Grip. The Speed Grip mounts to the camera same as the motor drive, but it has no motor. It does have a film crank lever, though, that advances the film with two strokes of the lever. With a plain prism or an AE prism mounted, the camera takes on the feel of a largish 35mm camera. I find it to be very easy to use in this fashion..

I think the only limitation with a 645 SLR is the need for a prism for vertical shots, and as this generally leads to 'eye-level' viewing, a winder/speedgrip also becomes important. I have a manual wind crank for my Mamiya 645 and it's OK without the winder - but it feels better with the handgrip provided by the winder.

I also own several medium format rangefinders, albeit none that are 645. I have a few 6x6 rangefinders, a 6x6 TLR, and one 6x9. And, speaking of medium format systems, I also own a Pentax 67 with a few lenses -- what a beast, but I love it. I like having this sort of versatility and see no reason why I should limit myself to a single camera or system with such a fantastic film format.

I've been looking at Fuji 6x7 & 6x9 rangefinders, but I'm having problems justifying the expense given their rarity in the UK. They're slight smaller/lighter than my P67 (for which I have several lenses), but the bag they fit would be the same size, the additional weight is negligible for my purposes.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you can afford it, why not get both? I certainly wouldn't mind adding a Fuji 645 to my collection, and I may do it some day.

I absolutely agree. The commonly available medium format gear (Mamiya, Bronica, Pentax, TLRs and even some Hassles) 'feel' significantly cheaper than they've ever been. In the UK, the Fuji rangefinders, Bronica 645RF & Mamiya 6 or 7 are hard to find and expensive. There will be many times when the difference between an SLR or rangefinder is irrelevant but there will also be a few specific situations where having one or the other is a deal maker/breaker.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I think the only limitation with a 645 SLR is the need for a prism for vertical shots, and as this generally leads to 'eye-level' viewing, a winder/speedgrip also becomes important. I have a manual wind crank for my Mamiya 645 and it's OK without the winder - but it feels better with the handgrip provided by the winder.

Hence my recommendation to shoot 6x6 instead with a Hasselblad or Rollei 6xxx.

 

[crumpet8]

The Pentax 645 is 1320 grams, body (w/integrated grip) + filmback but without lens.

Thanks, Thats a little heavy with a lens for me unfortunately...

I own a Bronica ETRSi alo

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you can afford it, why not get both? I certainly wouldn't mind adding a Fuji 645 to my collection, and I may do it some day.

I cut down my cameras to ones that actually get used or werent worth selling (I currently have a 35mm, 2 6x6 and a 4x5). Can’t really afford to buy both, but i wouldn’t want to see one sitting on the shelf either. Looks like I’m getting a 645e with 35, 80 and 150mm lenses. Someone contacted me today with a kit they were looking to sell.

 

[crumpet8]

Hence my recommendation to shoot 6x6 instead with a Hasselblad or Rollei 6xxx.

Trying to get those extra frames per roll