Bronica EC-Tl worth buying?

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moto-uno

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^Are there no tricks to removing the dark slide after film back removal , that would allow a simple frosted glass( packing tape)
to be placed in the film plane and compare image in viewfinder with the frosted plate . Adjust rubber stopper until they match.
Peter
 
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campy51

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You have to remove the back in order to dry fire the camera. Unfortunately, the dark slide must be inserted to remove the back...
Your new camera was listed as used rather than as-is so If the lens has fungus you should send it back to the seller and find a more complete, fully functional example.
Or, having sated your curiosity, move on to something else.
The EC cameras look terrific on paper but have a serious problem with a rubber mirror bumper which if deteriorated or missing makes it impossible to achieve correct focus.
Too bad that the rubber part is unobtainable and no one has the specs to make a duplicate part.

I am getting some stiff resistance from the seller. I haven't opened up a return yet, I was hoping he would just take it back which is what I have done.
 

moto-uno

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^ Considering he made reference to the "high quality lenses" in his remarks, he must accept the fact that
fungus in the lens is not the mark of quality ! Peter
 

choiliefan

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Open a return case.
Seller's paypal account will be frozen until he ponies up the refund including return shipping.
No ramifications so you are home free.
 

Alan Gales

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Moto-uno and Choiliefan are right. Not disclosing fungus in a lens is deceptive advertising and giving you stiff resistance is BS. Don't waste your time with this person. Open a claim with PayPal and they will take care of it for you.
 
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campy51

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I have been corresponding with him and he's being an a$$hole. I opened up a return claim with ebay. He keeps throwing a comment I made about the cosmetic condition being as described back at me as proof the camera was as described. I opened up a non working claim since it has a functional problem.
 

moto-uno

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I know this is an older thread , but did you finally get satisfaction ? And how about his name so I don't find myself bidding on anything he sells . Peter
 
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campy51

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I know this is an older thread , but did you finally get satisfaction ? And how about his name so I don't find myself bidding on anything he sells . Peter
He gave me a partial refund for the lens and I bought a home made dark slide off ebay. Iv'e since sold the camera and bought a 500 C/M.
 

Deleted member 88956

I used to shoot EC's and I had an S2a once. Like said earlier, The early model Bronicas had brass winding gears that would strip in professional use. The S2a and later EC models had stronger metal gears so the problem was eliminated. If you buy an earlier model it is recommended that you wind film with the knob and not fold out the crank. This reduces torque on the brass gears.

EC stands for Electronically Controlled shutter which was powered by a battery. The earlier S2a had a mechanical shutter so it does not use a battery. These cameras are pretty old now. I'd recommend the S2a over the EC models because it doesn't have electronics to fail.
I entirely disagree with S2A over EC. EC has far less mirror slap. Lenses are the same for both. Mirror is one point of concern, perhaps as EC has split mirror design (which makes it work so much sweeter over S2) while S2 shoots the whole one-piece. However, while the EC is a lift/drop arrangement (depending which part of mirror we're looking at), S2 is slide down out-of-way, unique in both cases. But the biggest issue on EC is that bottom, much smaller, mirror can often be found with damage, from scratches to cracks, so be sure to see photos of the mirrors to see it is not scratched. This is coming from 100 lens and its peculiar design in EC set-up and it must be dismounted in a different way from rest of the lenses, or it will hit the mirror for sure.

EC is much newer than S2 and I'm yet to read about electronics as a serious problem.

One issue with S2A is confusion over which one it is. Many sellers, mostly from Japan, claim S2A while clearly they sell S2. Some of those had S2A at end of serial number, so it's easy. But not all. Some reports claim that serials from 150 (or 155XXX) are S2A, possibly so.
 
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choiliefan

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The advance knob on the S2 is more conical in appearance than the one found on all S2A's irrespective of the serial number.
 

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The advance knob on the S2 is more conical in appearance than the one found on all S2A's irrespective of the serial number.
Not true at all, conical knob is on early models, then squarish one was put on S2 and as far I could tell, exact same knob is on the S2A, Not to mention knobs can be changed. If SN does not end with S2A (both, body and backs had that) it becomes a matter of late SN numbers, short of stripping body naked to check gear material. I think SN did not reach 200XXX on the body before production stopped.

I believe that so long as the S2 was used lightly it will still last in same use for a lifetime, but how can one tell?
 

Grim Tuesday

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He gave me a partial refund for the lens and I bought a home made dark slide off ebay. Iv'e since sold the camera and bought a 500 C/M.

For what it's worth, if you had sent the whole thing back to him after an official return request, eBay or Paypal would have given your money back to you. I've been on the other side of this, with a buyer who purchased a lens from me and immediately wanted to return it for no reason. The guy took the tripod collar off the lens and put it next to the front element of the lens! Of course it got scratched up on the way back! I refused to give him a full refund and eBay sided with me, but then he made a claim on PayPal and PayPal sided with him no matter how many times I explained how he damaged the lens, they kept on telling me that he had returned it to me (I even rejected the return request on eBay!) so they were going to give him his money. I still can't tell if the guy was an idiot or trying to scam the postal service (get an insurance claim from USPS plus the refund from me/paypal?)

Anyways, long story short, eBay is a buyer's market. Especially in this case you were in the right.
 

Deleted member 88956

Are you talking about the later Bronica leaf shutter lenses or the early Bronica lenses for focal plane shutter cameras? I sold my 150mm Bronica Zenza lens on Ebay and only got $75.00 for it. The 75mm Nikkors went for even less. I've seen 50mm lenses go pretty cheap. I did sell my 40mm lens for $400-$500 but they are rare as hen's teeth and it went to a collector. The later Bronica leaf shutter lenses do bring more money.
If you had that 150 on auction with no or low reserve, than it is always a gamble with final price directly related to that moment of interest and from what kind of crowd. If you had it for BIN at 100-120, it was rather a sell if in great condition. But US market is vastly different from say Europe where Bronicas are on a different (low/scarce) supply level and prices are 30-50% higher. But similar difference applies to most photographic gear.

I think Japan is what represents "proper" market value for those trying to figure where the asking price stands in the "value" department. Then it is a matter of applying it correctly (i..e not forgetting customs, so for US delivery there is no customs so it is a WYSIWYG with delivery times 1-2 weeks, for EU is a near sure thing there will be, barring some lucky day in the office, and it is no chump change and around a month to see it). I once received a Bronica EC prism straight with no customs, but so far anything that weighs a pound or more seems to get noticed where you hope it won't. So for those in EU, if a lens sells easily in Japan for $100 and same in EU for $150, while the latter is still somewhat above your FINAL price, it may still be a surer option and much faster delivery.

For S/EC lenses, the 40 has been mentioned as much above the rest in price point, but also the Carl Zeiss Jena 80 / 2.8 is very rare, and the Nikkor H.C. 75 runs much above P & PC versions. Long focal lengths are actually on cheaper end (still higher than mainstream ones). All of it to keep in perspective when looking for a package as suddenly a lens alone may be worth more than asking price with rest a pure free stuff.
 
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Deleted member 88956

^Are there no tricks to removing the dark slide after film back removal , that would allow a simple frosted glass( packing tape)
to be placed in the film plane and compare image in viewfinder with the frosted plate . Adjust rubber stopper until they match.
Peter
Sure, the small access point in the back that allows camera's pin to make it "life" upon mounting needs a little poker to press in and slide is off. Same needs to be done for reinsertion of slide, in reverse of course.
 
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campy51

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^Thanks for the reply , I hope the OP is still watching this thread :smile: , Peter
I am still here but everything has changed since I posted. Since then I have purchased and sold all the cameras mentioned and then some. What I have now is a Hassy 500 C/M, Kowa Six, Kodak Medalist II, Minolta Autocord, Rolleiflex 2.8C and E, I am still looking for a deal on a Bronica EC, but I only buy cameras at a price I can resell for a profit or for what I paid for it. The one I have owned and regret selling is a Mamiya 7, It was fantastic, but I didn't want to have that much money tied up in one camera that would be on display most of the time, and it's not that interesting looking for display like the others. I will be selling either the Rolleiflex 2.8 C or E but haven't decided on which one yet. They both are in excellent condition but have a flaw which will be described fully when up for sale.
 

moto-uno

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How coincidental ! I recently sold my Mamiya 7 kit , excellent ,but wanting to project slides made it unnecessary . I sold a Medalist 1 years ago also ,
once again a great camera and lens , but no way were those slides going to be projected . Presently own a few Kowa six and definitely enjoy them and
the selection of lenses , sold all my YashicaMats , fun and light , but only one lens . Was looking at the Bronica EC-TL models , but they've become rather
valuable of late . Peter
 

Deleted member 88956

How coincidental ! I recently sold my Mamiya 7 kit , excellent ,but wanting to project slides made it unnecessary . I sold a Medalist 1 years ago also ,
once again a great camera and lens , but no way were those slides going to be projected . Presently own a few Kowa six and definitely enjoy them and
the selection of lenses , sold all my YashicaMats , fun and light , but only one lens . Was looking at the Bronica EC-TL models , but they've become rather
valuable of late . Peter
The EC&TL does appear t have gone up. Then I got 2 film backs in top shape for about $85 each delivered (hard to find them especially without leatherette shrinking away, and visibly so). But whatever caused prices to creep up, it becomes more of a constant game waiting for that widow getting rid of late husband's collection.
 

Alan Gales

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If you had that 150 on auction with no or low reserve, than it is always a gamble with final price directly related to that moment of interest and from what kind of crowd. If you had it for BIN at 100-120, it was rather a sell if in great condition. But US market is vastly different from say Europe where Bronicas are on a different (low/scarce) supply level and prices are 30-50% higher. But similar difference applies to most photographic gear.

It's been a few years but I'm sure I started that lens off at .99 with no reserve. I agree it's a gamble but starting items at .99 generated interests. Then people would occasionally get competitive in bidding and pay more than they should. :smile: It wasn't just my lens though. I saw others go for that low price at that time. I used to be an eBay Seller of film photographic gear and knew what current prices were then. Of course prices change over time.

I agree with you about US and European markets being different on a lot of items. Japan is also a bit different.
 

Deleted member 88956

I see one of the 135-W backs sold last week on ebay for $152.50.
Seems like a bargain price: https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/153763195961?item=153763195961&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565
Well, it was an N back, so not so much. Then it was older one with single lock. Then seller tricked buyers with title for a W, then showed an N.

Just check bay for N 135 backs for ETRS, they go for around $110-120 now plus shipping from Japan. For US buyers no other fees, and some are the late style with double latch. So that auction was not good at all.

"W" are much harder to come by and price reflects that.
 
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