Broken Nova Processor acrylic divider

Aidrian Long · Nov 22, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Yes some cements may take 48 hours to set enough to make the repair sound but in cases like yours or anyone else that has a broken top to one of the slits holding it together for say 10 mins might be enough to allow it to set enough to allow time to do the rest. Even the superglues that only require pressing for about 45 seconds require maybe 24 hours to become sound.

Here's hoping

pentaxuser

Thanks for the advice you’ve been a great help. It’s much appreciated

BMbikerider · Nov 22, 2020

Aidrian Long said:
Thanks for the advice you’ve been a great help. It’s much appreciated

If it is the same sealer I used from NOVA. the sealer will most definitely NOT set in 10 mins or even start to go 'off'. On mine a sample of mixed sealer on my workbench remained soft for 24+ hours. It develops a skin but still remains soft. Bad advice I am afraid. It is not a quick acting epoxy, let time do it's work

Aidrian Long · Nov 22, 2020

I don’t know how I’ll be able to clamp it in place while it hardens. The only thing I can think of is some type of adhesive tape that I can remove afterwards.

John Koehrer · Nov 22, 2020

There's always lightweight fiberglass cloth & resin, The cloth comes in several different weights and the resin
sets very fast. The set time can be extended by mixing the resin with alcohol but it's finicky and frustrating.

DREW WILEY · Nov 22, 2020

Gosh, a replacement piece of acrylic that small would be about fifty cents in the scrap bin of our local plastic shop. What is all the fuss about? Aidrian - you hold the pieces together with lacquer tape, a special kind of masking tape resistant to the solvent. No epoxy, no Super Glue - just real solvent welding product.

BMbikerider · Nov 25, 2020

DREW WILEY said:
Gosh, a replacement piece of acrylic that small would be about fifty cents in the scrap bin of our local plastic shop. What is all the fuss about? Aidrian - you hold the pieces together with lacquer tape, a special kind of masking tape resistant to the solvent. No epoxy, no Super Glue - just real solvent welding product.

I Think this has been well thought out by the original manufacturers, and what they supply has been tried and tested so leaks don't occur. It has to stand the test of heating up and allowing liquids to cool (Expanding and contracting the case) and what they use has proven to be the most reliable.

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2020

BMbikerider said:
I Think this has been well thought out by the original manufacturers, and what they supply has been tried and tested so leaks don't occur. It has to stand the test of heating up and allowing liquids to cool (Expanding and contracting the case) and what they use has proven to be the most reliable.

A couple of things to consider for this repair: Nova processors use a waffle-texture acrylic so prints don't stick to the acrylic, plus the piece the OP posted has a curved edge that might be a challenge to reproduce or work with. It also has to withstand the chemicals. I picked up an older Nova single-slot washer that I wanted to use for a second fix bath and the factory representative advised against it, saying the material was not up to being used with fixer.

DREW WILEY · Nov 25, 2020

There is nothing they used that wouldn't be commonly available if you knew how to identify it, including textured plastics. A plastics shop could probably tell you on sight, if you can find one open during present circumstances. Then the selection is further narrowed by the material being susceptible to solvent welding as well as being thermoformable. Pretty darn basic. I've built all kinds of my own print washers, tanks, etc etc, some way bigger than any Nova processor, and they've been leak-free for decades. Just look up some how-to acylic fabrication sites and videos. It's not any more tricky than gluing together a plastic model car or airplane.

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2020

I wouldn't attempt it myself, lately my repair success rate has been dismal. Distracted by current affairs and being less productive, I guess.

pentaxuser · Nov 25, 2020

Pieter12 said:
. I picked up an older Nova single-slot washer that I wanted to use for a second fix bath and the factory representative advised against it, saying the material was not up to being used with fixer.

What factory representative was this? The factory that made the Nova? Did he say what it was about fixer that made it unsuitable for the Nova slot. Was he in fact saying that the washer slot was made of a material that was so different from the material that is used in the fixer slot that it was unsuitable?

How long ago was this?This is all new to me.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2020

pentaxuser said:
What factory representative was this? The factory that made the Nova? Did he say what it was about fixer that made it unsuitable for the Nova slot. Was he in fact saying that the washer slot was made of a material that was so different from the material that is used in the fixer slot that it was unsuitable?

How long ago was this?This is all new to me.

Thanks

pentaxuser

It was Steve Price from the Imaging warehouse. This is what he stated: "However, the latter batches of those washers were made out a particular material which was not compatible with chemicals (only washing water) and so you will need to check that the material does not crack or show signs of stressing when you have left it filled for a few days otherwise it may leak on your floor!"

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2020

And that inquiry was from 2018, but the washer being discussed had been discontinued many years before that.

pentaxuser · Nov 25, 2020

Thanks So I assume that the later washer slots were made of the same material as the main processor but that's just a guess. It sounds almost as if the glue fixing the slot into the washer was susceptible to whatever chemical fixer has in it. You'd imagine that it would have made sense for the material and glue to be the same. Difficult to imagine that the saving on material and or glue could have been enough to justify a different spec. Mine was a secondhand model bought directly from Nova in 2004 or 5 so might well have been made several years before but no mention was made to me of such a danger. Perhaps Nova never thought I'd even consider using what was a separate washer slot as anything other than a washer slot so no reason to mention it

Thanks

pentaxuser

BMbikerider · Nov 26, 2020

My NOVA is from around the same era but has the later heater control which is not the issue. Where it had cracked on the seam had already been repaired with something other than the correct cement. This was black, the correct cement is transparent, When I sanded down the old 'bodge' job I had to provide a deep enough layer to cover both the corner and cove over what was left of the stuff used previously.and so far after 8 months it is still leakproof.

Incidentally NOVA are marketing an improved version in the new year but what changes have been made, I have no idea.

AgX · Nov 26, 2020

BMbikerider said:
The adhesive they use is a two pack clear adhesive, which must be employed on an absolutely clean and totally dry surface and takes at least 48 hours to 'go off'. If the surface isn't absolutely clean and dry it won't work. Silicone Bath sealer won't work either (as I found out) because it doesn't bond fully and the liquid inside the tank will seep underneath. Neither will epoxy resin adhesive for the same reason.

I do not see why eypoxy adhesive should not work on this. Actually the 2-pack adhesive as you describe it seems to be even epoxy adhesive.

perkeleellinen · Nov 26, 2020

BMbikerider said:
Incidentally NOVA are marketing an improved version in the new year but what changes have been made, I have no idea.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...her-similar-setups.162243/page-2#post-2264151

BMbikerider · Nov 26, 2020

AgX said:
I do not see why eypoxy adhesive should not work on this. Actually the 2-pack adhesive as you describe it seems to be even epoxy adhesive.

The two pack adhesive smells totally different to an epoxy resin, it has the odour as if there is a solvent in one or both of the packs. With a previous similar processor the end lifting edge broke off and I tried to glue it back on with two pack epoxy and it didn't work. The epoxy had not adhered to the acrylic. It was on there, but did not have the permanent grip to work and if it is not bonded with the base material, then the chemicals will seep underneath

AgX · Nov 26, 2020

Epoxid glues are perfect for acrylic sheets. In your case the surface might not have bee clean but maybe had been contaminated before somehow.

Furthermore, cementing pieces op sheet material edge to edge should be a no-go anyway, unleess the fracture is of a 90° bend kind.

BMbikerider · Nov 27, 2020

AgX said:
Epoxid glues are perfect for acrylic sheets. In your case the surface might not have bee clean but maybe had been contaminated before somehow.

Furthermore, cementing pieces op sheet material edge to edge should be a no-go anyway, unleess the fracture is of a 90° bend kind.

Sorry to disagree with you AGX for the purpose of sealing the acrylic on the Nova is a non starter. If it were I would have thought that it would have been used for the original construction - It would be a lot cheaper.. I would imagine there has to be some solvent action as well which Epoxi resin does not provide. It certainly smells as if there is a solvent in the tubes as well.

I have to speak to NOVA on another matter on Monday next wee, so I will make a point of speaking to the manager and ask him his views..

DREW WILEY · Nov 28, 2020

What more can I say? Glues need some sanded "tooth" to adhere, or else a solvent "primer". Every plumber on the planet knows that. There are many many kinds of epoxies; they're not all the same. But what the hell do I know. We only sold about a million dollars a year in one epoxy brand alone. More than a million in other types of glues and sealants. I've provided adhesive sealants even for the Hubble space telescope. There's also the other-worldly option of actually reading instructions on packaging or websites; but I guess that is too difficult. (Typed with my acrylic cutting machinery right behind me).

DREW WILEY · Nov 28, 2020

Anecdote - on a previous job I worked alongside an older fellow who had machined the optics for the Pioneer satellites. He told me how they formulated their own super-glues before those were publicly marketed. A common prank was to put a few drops on someone's finger and tell them it was a new lubricant. They'd naturally rub their fingers together, and then a medic would have to be called to very carefully separate their glued-together fingers with a razor blade.

AgX · Nov 29, 2020

DREW WILEY said:
Glues need some sanded "tooth" to adhere, or else a solvent "primer". Every plumber on the planet knows that.

In general glues do not need a solvent primer. Actually even no solvent primer comes to my mind, in the meaning of the solvent being the active ingredient. You might might mix up "primering" with "degreasing".

The classic primer is one that actually chemically reacts with the surface. Such is used un non-polar surfaces as on PE, PP or Polyacetal. The effect is similar to a physical corona treatment. With such polar surface the molecules of the glue can bond the same way as with non-problematic surfaces. (More or less, typically special glue variants still are used with such primers.)

A roughening of surface is no prerequisite for cementing, as it does not alter the surface on nano-scale. And that scale is the important one. What roughening does is enlarging the effective surface, even substantially.

DREW WILEY · Nov 29, 2020

Hope you never go into either plumbing or furniture manufacture, or even window assembly, much less into yacht building! As far as plastics go, my gear doesn't leak. Even my sink is plastic, pure polypropylene in fact. How did I glue that?

pentaxuser · Nov 29, 2020

DREW WILEY said:
Anecdote - on a previous job I worked alongside an older fellow who had machined the optics for the Pioneer satellites. He told me how they formulated their own super-glues before those were publicly marketed. A common prank was to put a few drops on someone's finger and tell them it was a new lubricant. They'd naturally rub their fingers together, and then a medic would have to be called to very carefully separate their glued-together fingers with a razor blade.

Wow, what a hilarious place that must have been. What was the next best prank - labelling sulphuric acid as a new vodka and asking someone to offer their opinion on its taste?

I bet you were never caught out, Drew

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Nov 29, 2020

The pranks did get pretty far out there. But for fun, I just tried a trick question on AgX, and he probably figured that out by now. Polypropylene is not glued; it's heat welded.

Broken Nova Processor acrylic divider

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