Brett and Edward Weston

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Merg Ross

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Brett often said that he considered some of his very early work to be among his best. It is difficult to believe that this teenager, with only a sixth grade education, was working on anything other than an intuitive level.

In speaking of his work in a 1980 interview with Joan Murray, he summed it up this way: "I relate instinctively, from the gut, rather than the head."
 

Shawn Dougherty

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I doubt a "me too" on an internet forum constitutes "collaboration, comment, or the scholarly exchange of ideas" nor does sending it en masse via email to 10 or 12 people really fall under "ad hoc", but I was just playing devil's advocate anyway.

I have now read the article over a couple of times and had several conversations with various photographers, both in person and via e-mail, regarding said article and our mutual appreciation of both photographers. We have compared this to both the related essays in "Brett Weston: Out of the Shadow" and "Dune". I feel I have learned from the article and as well as these exchanges. Let's not forget the invaluable anecdotal information Merg Ross has added to this thread.

In my humble opinion that would fall under "the scholarly exchange of ideas".
 

Jeremy

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A problem with the Aikin essay is seen in the Kelp image description - it suggests Brett was very methodical. Quoting: "Brett has been careful to present a balanced ratio of incomplete and relatively complete kelp stems", or "Notice the precise intervals in the relationship of these two kelp stems to the
frame." or, "Further perusal of Brett's composition reveals how carefully constructed the picture really is. "
Yet we have on other authority that Brett was very intuitive in his selection and composing. He was very confident in his abilities, so did not need to resort to analytical appraisals. Just a minor point.

Doug,

Can you explain more on why you see this as a problem? I read it: Brett works very intuitively and has a natural vision for highly complex compositions which can be broken down analytically. His methodology in practice is intuitive, but the final photograph stands up to extensive formal analysis.
 

Shawn Dougherty

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Doug,
I read it: Brett works very intuitively and has a natural vision for highly complex compositions which can be broken down analytically. His methodology in practice is intuitive, but the final photograph stands up to extensive formal analysis.

This basically echos my thoughts as well, Jeremy.

I think it may be an issue of semantics... the wording chosen could lead you to believe he made these choices in the field in a more analytical manner than perhaps was intended...

An interesting point for certain.
 

doughowk

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Received Gerald Robinson's book, and it does have a very good chapter that compares Ed & Brett. His concise summation: "Edward strived to record the thing itself, and more, its essence. For Brett, the subject was a means to create a visual experience in the final print".
 

Merg Ross

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This basically echos my thoughts as well, Jeremy.

I think it may be an issue of semantics... the wording chosen could lead you to believe he made these choices in the field in a more analytical manner than perhaps was intended...

An interesting point for certain.

Shawn and Jeremy, your conclusions have merit.

In discussing Brett, I have always considered our friendship first, and his stature as a photographer as a secondary component of that relationship. This most likely is the result of having known Brett from about the time of my eighth birthday.

However, without this early introduction to his passion for photography, I would most likely not have dedicated my life to photography. For this I am fortunate, and thank Brett.

When I speak and write about Brett, it is from the years of friendship and observation. There was never anything analytical about Brett's approach to his photography. Talk of photography bored him, and he had little use for those who would speak on the subject. The few workshops he lent his name to were devoid of detailed technical teaching or in depth critique, but were more an exercise of osmosis. He was in all honesty, more interested in his own work, the work ahead, and had little patience with the confines of teaching.

He was not a good candidate anyway, because he believed an artist was born with a special vision, something that could not be taught; his quote, "Artisits are born and they are not hatched out of art schools or photographic schools or schools for painting or sculpting", pretty much summed up his view of teaching.

It is with this impression of Brett that I sometimes find myself commenting on the analysis of his work. Such analysis is to be expected, and is in the tradition of artistic endeavors. Where I might disagree, is when an analysis attempts to interpret the motivations of the artist.
 

Curt

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Shawn and Jeremy, your conclusions have merit.

In discussing Brett, I have always considered our friendship first, and his stature as a photographer as a secondary component of that relationship. This most likely is the result of having known Brett from about the time of my eighth birthday.

However, without this early introduction to his passion for photography, I would most likely not have dedicated my life to photography. For this I am fortunate, and thank Brett.

When I speak and write about Brett, it is from the years of friendship and observation. There was never anything analytical about Brett's approach to his photography. Talk of photography bored him, and he had little use for those who would speak on the subject. The few workshops he lent his name to were devoid of detailed technical teaching or in depth critique, but were more an exercise of osmosis. He was in all honesty, more interested in his own work, the work ahead, and had little patience with the confines of teaching.

He was not a good candidate anyway, because he believed an artist was born with a special vision, something that could not be taught; his quote, "Artisits are born and they are not hatched out of art schools or photographic schools or schools for painting or sculpting", pretty much summed up his view of teaching.

It is with this impression of Brett that I sometimes find myself commenting on the analysis of his work. Such analysis is to be expected, and is in the tradition of artistic endeavors. Where I might disagree, is when an analysis attempts to interpret the motivations of the artist.

Merg:

Have you considered sitting down with a tape recorder and documenting the vast amount of memories of your experiences with your father and the many people within the photographic community that touched your life starting at such an early age in the hope that this could be compiled into a book? I would think that while this would be a challenging endeavor, the results could be very stimulating. The snippets that you shared with us are intensely stimulating. The video on Brett was fabulous.

I can't thank you enough for being so gracious with your time.
 

jamesmck

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It is rather amusing to see all of these people popping up to request the article for free, but I wonder if they would be up in arms if the copyright of a photographer was infringed upon in a similar manner....

I don't mind paying for it, if someone would tell me how to do that.

James
 

Shawn Dougherty

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This basically echos my thoughts as well, Jeremy.

I think it may be an issue of semantics... the wording chosen could lead you to believe he made these choices in the field in a more analytical manner than perhaps was intended...

An interesting point for certain.

I finally got a chance to look over this article again and decided to look up Brett's picture of kelp in my library. I knew it was in there somewhere and it turned up in his portfolio of 11x14 contact prints...

Knowing that it was made with the large view camera, I wonder if this is a case where Brett WAS a bit more analytical about his composition than normal?

Merg, had you ever been with Brett when he used the 11x14? Did he approach his subject matter and compositions differently with the larger camera?

Considering the equipment Brett usually used (8x10, 5x7 and MF later in life) I wonder if choosing something made with the 11x14 was the best idea when comparing Brett and Edward's styles? I BELIEVE the rest of the examples in the article were made with smaller formats.

Shawn
 

Shawn Dougherty

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For reference, this is the 11x14 Brett image in question.
 

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doughowk

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In Aikin's essay for Fifteen Photographs of Japan, he states:
Brett Weston's pictures had always boasted freedom and nonchalance, as opposed to the large format pictures of some other "straight" photographers like Edward Weston or Ansel Adams, whose photographs , while often works of genius, have a more contemplative, fabricated, or even a labored feeling. With the Rollei, his new Japanese photographs seem even more spontaneous, sensuous, and carefree, as if they were seen and exposed with a single gesture.
 

Curt

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Japan, the portfolio, arrived this afternoon and is really a winner. The next book is Europe.
 

Mike Lopez

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Looking forward to receiving mine. Hopefully next week.

I would appreciate the PDF of that article as well, if anyone could send it to me. Thank you.
 

Merg Ross

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I finally got a chance to look over this article again and decided to look up Brett's picture of kelp in my library. I knew it was in there somewhere and it turned up in his portfolio of 11x14 contact prints...

Knowing that it was made with the large view camera, I wonder if this is a case where Brett WAS a bit more analytical about his composition than normal?

Merg, had you ever been with Brett when he used the 11x14? Did he approach his subject matter and compositions differently with the larger camera?

Considering the equipment Brett usually used (8x10, 5x7 and MF later in life) I wonder if choosing something made with the 11x14 was the best idea when comparing Brett and Edward's styles? I BELIEVE the rest of the examples in the article were made with smaller formats.

Shawn

Shawn, the only time that I recall Brett using the 11x14 was when he was photographing the "Broken Glass" series. The subject was an old automobile windshield that he and Dody picked up along the northern California coast in 1954. They brought it back to their Garrapata Canyon home and both photographed it over a period of time, which accounts for the 1954 and 1955 dates on Brett's prints. I know that at least three different compositions were included in Brett's portfolios, "Ten Photographs", "Fifteen Photographs" and "Abstractions, Portfolio #1. The 11x14 contact print that I recall was included in "Ten Photographs".

It was about this time that Brett was contemplating making a portfolio of his 11x14 contact prints from his time in New York and from his Guggenheim trip. My guess is that he did not have sufficient work for a strong portfolio at the time, and made sporadic use of the 11x14, always close to home, or in the case of the windshield series, he was at home.

In answer to your question, I have to believe that he approached his 11x14 compositions differently from when he was utilizing the smaller cameras. He implied as much himself much later when he was using the 6x6 and 6x7 cameras pretty much exclusively.

This is just my opinion, but I never considered the "Kelp" photograph that you mention to be typical of Brett's work, nor among his best. However, it might be the perfect image for analysis given the fact that it is not typical. Or, perhaps that was his vision at the time, and he moved on to less chaotic compositions.

Anyway, I will leave the disection of Brett's work to the critics, always remembering that he worked intuitively and from the gut.
 

Curt

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Merg, what were Brett's favorite film emulsions for use in the Rollei 66 and the Mamiya RB67? I know he used Agfa Pan 25, any others?

Thanks you for putting up with so many questions. I had a dream last night that I was going into the Army to be a photographer, BTW we are ten years apart in age. I often feel that I was born too late, just ten years earlier and my life would have been much more interesting. I ended up in the Navy and Vietnam and no photography school in the service for me although I asked for it, you know the government, ask and you shall receive, something else.

Curt
 

PaulW128

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Merg;

I'm half way through the book you recommended, Photography, History & Science. It's a great book, very well written. The insights Mr. Robinson brings forth regarding Brett and Edward, along with your gracious contributions to this thread give me a real sense of the "man behind the myth"!

What a great opportunity you've given us all, sharing your opinions and anecdotes regarding a photographic hero of mine. I only wish I took one of Ansel's workshops back in the '70's. The idea of being surrounded by such amazing photographers, even for a weekend is too much to even think about.

I really enjoyed the chapter in the book where Mr. Robinson talks about Ansel Adams. Also very interesting. I have read that Brett's relationship to Ansel was somewhat antagonistic and that Brett loved to tease Ansel at every opportunity. I get the sense that although they respected eachother's work, the way in which they photographed was very different, and that Brett had no patience for Ansel's analytical approach, but then again, maybe i'm reading too far into it.

Thank you once again for sharing your thoughts

Best
Paul
 

Merg Ross

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Merg, what were Brett's favorite film emulsions for use in the Rollei 66 and the Mamiya RB67? I know he used Agfa Pan 25, any others?

Thanks you for putting up with so many questions. I had a dream last night that I was going into the Army to be a photographer, BTW we are ten years apart in age. I often feel that I was born too late, just ten years earlier and my life would have been much more interesting. I ended up in the Navy and Vietnam and no photography school in the service for me although I asked for it, you know the government, ask and you shall receive, something else.

Curt

Hi Curt, questions are fine, however I have few answers when it comes to Brett's technique. It was seldom a topic of discussion for more than a few minutes. He was once asked about dilutions and responded that he had two beakers; one he filled with stock and the other he filled with water. So much for the fine points of his technique. Yes, he did use the Agfa Pan 25 and developed it in Rodinal, that I do know; reports are at 1:100.

Brett and I had different, yet similar, Army experiences. He was sent to truck driving school, until someone higher up realized that he was Edward Weston's son and might be better off in a photographic capacity. So, the strings were pulled, and Brett was sent to the Army Pictorial Center in NY. His CO was Arthur Rothstein, who was well aware of Brett and his father. It was while at the APC that Brett did his New York work with the permission of, and encouragement from, Rothstein.

Twenty years after Brett left the Army Pictorial Center, I was sent there on the day I completed infantry training in California. At that time (1964), the Army was starting to place personnel in areas reflecting their civilian skills. I was spared truck driving school, or worse fates.
 

Curt

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The Navy did the same thing but a little differently, you are a surgeon so you are now a cook. Just kidding of course and there was some effort to place the person in a capacity that would benefit the service.

I've read about the beaker comment and was just wondering if he used any Panatomic-X or other in roll, but it's not important. What are you using these days for 120, have you refined out the Rollie Pan 25 for you personal work? I think your work is excellent, having seen some examples on the the site and in publications, are you under exposed in the public arena as to work shown?

I started with a Yankee kit at 12 and hoped to go to photo school in the service but not, then six years later on discharge I picked it up again as if I hadn't really stopped. I did take some photos overseas but no darkroom. I just bought a scanner and upon reading I looked up ICE and found that the conception of that great digital method was by a company called Eastman Kodak.

Seeing the Japan portfolio I was mentally taken back to the time I spent there in the 1970's. This portfolio in its entirety captures the "feel" of the country. Just one more example of the genius of Brett Weston.


Regards,
Curt
 

Merg Ross

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Merg;

I'm half way through the book you recommended, Photography, History & Science. It's a great book, very well written. The insights Mr. Robinson brings forth regarding Brett and Edward, along with your gracious contributions to this thread give me a real sense of the "man behind the myth"!

What a great opportunity you've given us all, sharing your opinions and anecdotes regarding a photographic hero of mine. I only wish I took one of Ansel's workshops back in the '70's. The idea of being surrounded by such amazing photographers, even for a weekend is too much to even think about.

I really enjoyed the chapter in the book where Mr. Robinson talks about Ansel Adams. Also very interesting. I have read that Brett's relationship to Ansel was somewhat antagonistic and that Brett loved to tease Ansel at every opportunity. I get the sense that although they respected eachother's work, the way in which they photographed was very different, and that Brett had no patience for Ansel's analytical approach, but then again, maybe i'm reading too far into it.

Thank you once again for sharing your thoughts

Best
Paul

Paul, I am happy to hear that you are enjoying the book; there is always a risk that a recommendation will fail to meet expectations. However, I felt that Jerry had included enough diversity in his topics to interest different readers.

Yes, it was always fun to see Brett and Ansel together and listen to their banter; they had great respect for each other's work, there is no doubt. It is true that Brett had little use or time for Ansel's technical and analytical approach to photography; of course Ansel was a teacher and Brett was not (unless by example). In his autobiography, Ansel included a qoute from Brett: "I am a primitive. Ansel is a scientist".

Also, I think the fact that Ansel was there for Edward when he became ill, was an important aspect of Brett's relationship with Ansel.

Thanks for the comments.

Best,
Merg
 

doughowk

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There are some exchanges of letters between Brett & Ansel in Ansel Adams: Letters and Images, 1916-1984, primarily about Ed Weston's deteriorating health. There are other letters by Ansel, such as to Alfred Stieglitz, promoting Brett's work. Ansel & Brett may have liked to exchange quips & gibes; but don't sense any animosity there. Which is good since they both are such inspiring photographers/individuals.
 
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