Breath Printing (Siderotype/Ferro Tartaric Acid)

[JohnMilleker]

Does anyone have a lead on a modern recipe for the old breath print process?

Many years ago, I saw a video that I've tried to find again. Not sure if it was YouTube, Vimeo or elsewhere of a gentleman demonstrating the breath print process to a group. If you're not familiar, this process was developed with moisture but was sensitive enough that breathing on it also developed the print. It was, a breathtaking process that I enjoyed watching and now want to add it to my own demonstrations and presentations.

The problem is, being a very amateur home chemist, I have limited knowledge on the chemical used. 'Ferro Tartaric Acid'. I've contacted the big names in chemistry with no luck. Hell, I've even mixed Ferrous Sulfate and Tartaric Acid and while I've gotten results with steam from a kettle, different ratios don't ever seem to get me to the sensitivity needed.

Anyone working in it or have any insights to share other than what's on the web on a few alt process sites and google books from the 19th century?

Thanks!
-John

 

[pentaxuser]

A new one on me. Do you expose the paper normally under an enlarger then dip the print in Ferro-Tartaric acid aftger which the paper still appears blank but breathing on it develops the picture just as if the paper were to be placed in developer.

Presumably stop bath and fixer are required or does the Ferro-Tartaric acid act as a one stage process plus breathing as well of course?

pentaxuser

 

[NedL]

I think this kind of dusting-on or resinotype print is made by mixing gelatin with ammonium ferric citrate ( also known as ammonium ferric citrate ) and exposing through a positive. The soft, unexposed gelatin will become sticky when breathed on, allowing dusting on of a pigment. I believe the exposed gelatin could be hardened first with hydrogen peroxide and cleared with EDTA. Look at the bottom of this page. ( Although that appears not to even use gelatin... which would be simpler if it works! -- and would be MUCH easier to clear. )

 

[pdeeh]

ammonium ferric citrate ( also known as ammonium ferric citrate )

The subtle difference between these two will escape most people, but not us of the cognoscenti, oh no ..

 

[pentaxuser]

I have since discovered that it was an 1842 Herschel process but information is very limited. Anyone know his website address or e-mail address?

pentaxuser

 

[pdeeh]

Perhaps Madame Arcati can help?

 

[JohnMilleker]

A new one on me. Do you expose the paper normally under an enlarger then dip the print in Ferro-Tartaric acid aftger which the paper still appears blank but breathing on it develops the picture just as if the paper were to be placed in developer.

Presumably stop bath and fixer are required or does the Ferro-Tartaric acid act as a one stage process plus breathing as well of course?

pentaxuser

Sadly, I'm not quite sure on a lot of variables. I can't seem to find my notes from the last time I tried to figure it out (over a year) but seem to remember the Ferrous Sulfate/Tartaric Acid wash on the paper first and then a brushing of Silver Nitrate. Likely 12%. It was contact printed under a negative and darkened over the steam of a kettle.

I think this kind of dusting-on or resinotype print is made by mixing gelatin with ammonium ferric citrate ( also known as ammonium ferric citrate ) and exposing through a positive. The soft, unexposed gelatin will become sticky when breathed on, allowing dusting on of a pigment. I believe the exposed gelatin could be hardened first with hydrogen peroxide and cleared with EDTA. Look at the bottom of this page. ( Although that appears not to even use gelatin... which would be simpler if it works! -- and would be MUCH easier to clear. )

Wow Ned, I really think these are stills from the same group of people in the video I saw. I do remember them speaking French, and if this 2010 meeting was in Paris.. That's probably it! Thank you for the lead, it seems like I had the wrong process all along. I could have sworn though that the print was developed because of the action of the breath and not just have the humidity assist with the dusting-on.

Thanks!

 

[removed account4]

sounds like a fun process,
but i hate to say i would hate to have my mouth and nose
that close to any photochemistry !

 

[NedL]

The subtle difference between these two will escape most people, but not us of the cognoscenti, oh no ..

I'm telling you, it's a subtle distinction. Subtle I tell you. Really!

There are some scattered pages about this process around the internet, and in old journals. Some of the images look lovely. I remember reading that the pigments must be ground very finely, if you try it, please be careful about breathing them.

 

[Dibbd]

I think this kind of dusting-on or resinotype print is made by mixing gelatin with ammonium ferric citrate ( also known as ammonium ferric citrate ) and exposing through a positive. The soft, unexposed gelatin will become sticky when breathed on, allowing dusting on of a pigment. I believe the exposed gelatin could be hardened first with hydrogen peroxide and cleared with EDTA. Look at the bottom of this page. ( Although that appears not to even use gelatin... which would be simpler if it works! -- and would be MUCH easier to clear. )

I don't think that's what the OP refers to. I think it's Herschel's "Breath Printing" Here's some information from the horse's mouth.

http://foxtalbot.dmu.ac.uk/letters/...&pageNumber=110&pageTotal=142&referringPage=5

And more here

http://bookdome.com/arts/Manual-Photography/Section-IV-Ferro-Tartrate-Of-Silver.html#.WCnHqi2LRpg