Box Cameras

Theo Sulphate · Dec 31, 2017

At least with box cameras the film was held tight in the focal plane by tension from both spools across the molded aperture.

With 110, the feed side of the film was just coiled in the chamber and there was no pressure or tightness keeping the film flat at the focal plane. 126 may have had the same design. I wish the design had been better.

Compared to the typical 127-film box camera, it seems that Kodak's introduction of 126, 110, and disc were successively lower in quality.

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

ciniframe said:
Kodak introduced 126 in 1963 and sold the type up to about 1980

Kodak ceased producing 126 film at the beginning of 2000, and some stores carried it until the expiry date. Ferrania produced 126 until 2008. I assume it was niche by 2000, its intended market being superseded by 110, disc and APS formats, as well as easy load 35mm cameras. 126' heyday was the 1960s when it killed off the box camera and had no competition as an amateur format except for possibly Polaroid.

620 was a pointless if popular format, designed to keep camera owners buying Kodak roll film, an aim in which it largely succeeded.

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

It's surprising how late film was produced for formats whose cameras hadn't been made for decades, the use of which must have been tiny. For instance 116 (2 1/2 x 4 1/4" roll film which emerged in 1899) was made until 1984, and 828 (8 exposure 28 x 40mm on paper backed 35mm roll film) survived until 1985. Unlike some of the film packs that lasted until the mid-1970s and may have had niche commercial applications, such as in-store portraiture or ID photography, it's hard to imagine who was shooting enough 116 in the 1980s to make it worthwhile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_format

baachitraka · Dec 31, 2017

Baby Box Tengor is rather very nice looking camera. But it takes 127. Though this film format is still available but it is prohibitively expensive.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 31, 2017

blockend said:
... it's hard to imagine who was shooting enough 116 in the 1980s to make it worthwhile.
...

Never heard of 116 until... Last month my aunt gave me the "family camera" used between the 1930's and 1950's: an Agfa Cadet D-6 which uses 116 film.

I'll have to spool 120 onto it.

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
I'll have to spool 120 onto it

That's the way to keep these old beasts alive.

removed account4 · Dec 31, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Never heard of 116 until... Last month my aunt gave me the "family camera" used between the 1930's and 1950's: an Agfa Cadet D-6 which uses 116 film.

I'll have to spool 120 onto it.

is 116 the same width as 120 ( like 620 kinda sorta ) and just a different size spool ?

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

jnanian said:
is 116 the same width as 120 ( like 620 kinda sorta ) and just a different size spool ?

Here's an article on converting 116 cameras to 120: http://www.brownie-camera.com/articles/petelutz/use-120-film-in-116-616-camera.shtml
and...
http://quirkyguywithacamera.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/an-autographic-experiment-part-1.html

removed account4 · Dec 31, 2017

huge thanks !

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

jnanian said:
huge thanks !

Googling shows a couple of cottage industry spool adapters that allow you to use 120 in 616 cameras. Here's one of them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taiabati/sets/72157629217060333/
A company called "holgamods" who trade on eBay offer a variety of inexpensive adapters for various formats including 616.

baachitraka · Dec 31, 2017

blockend said:
Googling shows a couple of cottage industry spool adapters that allow you to use 120 in 616 cameras. Here's one of them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taiabati/sets/72157629217060333/
A company called "holgamods" who trade on eBay offer a variety of inexpensive adapters for various formats including 616.

Thats pretty cool.

guangong · Dec 31, 2017

A very interesting thread with good commentaries by all. The photographic memories for a great many families were recorded with these simple box cameras. The sad irony is that images taken with a simple box camera stored in a shoe box will outlive those recorded digitally.

AgX · Dec 31, 2017

ciniframe said:
Love that design! Now if only Kodak Alaris would either bring back the same look in a box camera (but using 120 film for 6X6 negs) or at least sub contract out to a third party to recreate a box camera. I feel it's time to bring back a camera that slows down folks and encourage them to make 12 pictures that mean something (at least to them). Not a gazillion shots on their phones, a visual clutter to match cluttered minds. No wonder people have 3 second attention spans.

This market isd dominated by Lomography. For Kodak this would mean not only manufacturing this camera, but also starting marketing for one just one camera only.

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2017

blockend said:
That's the way to keep these old beasts alive.

Save the 116 spools!

NedL · Dec 31, 2017

blockend said:
Googling shows a couple of cottage industry spool adapters that allow you to use 120 in 616 cameras. Here's one of them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taiabati/sets/72157629217060333/
A company called "holgamods" who trade on eBay offer a variety of inexpensive adapters for various formats including 616.

This is even simpler:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/radioripster/3968400219/

I tried it one time and it worked fine, but then I went back to using paper negatives.... the 116 contact prints are a nice size, a stack of them is like holding a stack of playing cards...

MattKing · Dec 31, 2017

FWIW, 616 and 116 use the same size film and backing paper - only the spools differ. 616 was introduced for the same reasons as 620 - to be Kodak camera specific, and to allow for (slightly) smaller cameras.

Sirius Glass · Dec 31, 2017

MattKing said:
FWIW, 616 and 116 use the same size film and backing paper - only the spools differ. 616 was introduced for the same reasons as 620 - to be Kodak camera specific, and to allow for (slightly) smaller cameras.

Yet some complain the Kodak does not know anything about marketing. Humpf.

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

Good tip about the wall plugs. There were a lot of 116 box cameras made by Kodak, but also Agfa, Ansco, Spartus and others.

baachitraka · Dec 31, 2017

I am searching Agfa 116 cameras...

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

baachitraka said:
I am searching Agfa 116 cameras...

Try Agfa Cadet box camera. Agfa called their 116 film D-6, it's the same thing. Also Ansco 6A, 6B, Ensign 2 1/2", Vulcan 232, Seneca 348, Rexo 425, 426. The spool size is 2.814".

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

Off topic, looking at some of these old formats lead me to wonder what the shortest lived commercially available film type was. My first guess was APS, and as far as I tell it is at a mere 8 years (1996 - 2004). Among older film formats there's one called 35, which was unperforated 35mm stock with a 17 year existence (ended 1933, presumably for pre-Leica 35mm cameras), and a number of early formats with a life of 26 years, including 106, 107, 109 and 112, the latter being a 7 x 5" roll film format! (I hope the backing plate was solid).

Prize for longest lived film format goes to 120 at 117 years and counting. Remarkable.

blockend · Dec 31, 2017

Another format that turns up in box camera lore is 130, which was used in box and folding cameras. At just under 3 x 5" it must have been an impressive negative, and was only deleted from the Kodak catalogue in the early 1960s.

AgX · Jan 1, 2018

blockend said:
Try Agfa Cadet box camera. Agfa called their 116 film D-6, it's the same thing. Also Ansco 6A, 6B, Ensign 2 1/2", Vulcan 232, Seneca 348, Rexo 425, 426. The spool size is 2.814".

I'm not a box-camera specialist at all, but I doubt, though the film type having a german designation too, type 116 cameras were marketed in Germany.

blockend · Jan 1, 2018

AgX said:
I'm not a box-camera specialist at all, but I doubt, though the film type having a german designation too, type 116 cameras were marketed in Germany.

If you look at pictures of older 116 film boxes, you'll find a D6 designation on the box also. Before international standardisation different companies had differing designations for 2.814" spool sizes.

AgX · Jan 1, 2018

I know, I even hinted at that. But this still is not contrary to what I said about the spread of these cameras.

Box Cameras

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