Bought something and do not know what it is

[sun of sand]

Dot Works paper. Dot works is a graphic arts supply type company and actually have a website http://www.dotworks.com
They only list one paper there and it describes as metal-halide in need of UV lightsource..the .pdf directs to another product so no hope there.
What is metal halide? What kind of metal?
Anyway, I think this paper that I bought is a few years old so it may not even be the same type of paper as the one listed.

In the auction it was described as Lith/Insta-Lith/waterproof/
That is it. I figure waterproof just means RC.

I've read about Kodalith paper being a long gone, dearly missed Lith paper so I figured this may be a knockoff brand of that same type of product. Is it?

On the site you also see mention of VariDot paper
I checked that out and found a few posts -by the same guy- talking about an ilford paper called VariDot which is the same thing as Ilf MG IV.

Concerning Lith printing now
Why would Kodalith paper be used for lith printing when kodalith film is not? Is it about the look of the film only? What if kodalith was developed to CT and not Black/White ..could then be used for lith printing?

If using a Lith Paper -like that Kodalith- does one still use an A/B high-contrast developer like Kodalith or does one use a normal contrast developer allowing the paper to give the higher contrast effect?



If it's not usable for lith printing I'll just sell it again ..taking a loss most likely.
It was only $20 for 3 100 sheet boxes and a 4th previously opened so not a big deal


Clark

 

[PHOTOTONE]

There are items that have been made for "Lithography" which is a printing process, widely used today. The materials used in the production of screened images (turns the whole image into black dots) can be confusing. To print with ink onto paper by a printing press..continuous tone photographs have to be screened, that is, shot through a precise screen that turns the whole image into various size dots, as ink is black, no gray shades, therefore to reproduce a tonal range, it has to be made up of various size black dots. I believe what you have is a specialist material used in offset-lithography in the production of the metal plates for use on the press.

 

[Marco B]

Metal Halide is just a generic name for any substance consisting of a metal cation (e.g. Ag+, the silver cation) and any of the "halide" anions (e.g. the elements Cl-, Br-, I-, so chloride, bromide or iodine). Cations are positively charged, and anions negatively.

So even normal photopaper, which consist of silverbromide or silverchloride, are "metal halides". But also something as ordinary as plain salt, which is NaCl, sodiumchloride...

It does indeed seem to be some sort of printing process product, looking at the website. Might be interesting to give it a try though, as an experiment! You never know what it turns up.

 

[glbeas]

It's most likely a high contrast UV sensitive material for making negatives or positives to contact print lithographic plates with. If used with the A/B type lith developers you get a very high contrast image. Even with normal print developers you would have a pretty high contrast. I'd grab some sheets out from the opened box and try some contact prints of a negative. Try using a halogen floodlamp to expose with as a trial run, the sensitivity may overlap enough to make it work. Post the results, this could be interesting.

 

[rdbkorn]

I believe the "metal halide" referred to is a metal halide lamp, which outputs a fair amount of UV light. The UV light is needed for exposure of the material to produce an image. Like most alternative processes (e.g. cyanotype, photopolymer).

 

[Mike Wilde]

autoscreen?

there was a lith product that did the dots for offset without the need for a screen. I think that is what you may have. It would have relied on a physical development to grow the dots based on the exposure they received.

Conventional Lith film can be developed to low contrast with the right developer. I use lith to make unsharp masks when I am working with 120 format negatives; half of a 4x5" sheet os just the right size to leave something to hold onto with the processing tongs. I develop it in a formula called T/O XDR-4, from Anschell & Troop Darkroom Cookbook. It has something like 1g of metol per litre of solution as the only developing agent.

 

[sun of sand]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I don't know anything about lithography the printing process even after I researched it for a few hours. I wasn't really into it, I guess. I just go blank when you guys start talking about screens and plates an..________________________________
But thanks for trying

Anyway, I just received the stuff and hurried into the darkroom to check it out
I figured it wasn't even going to be photosensitive

It is, at least.
I -hastily- printed a lith neg developed for continuous tone (just the first one I came to) in Dektol 1:2
I got a print with greater contrast.
I didn't bother with any filter, either. Just the enlarger light at f16 for about 20-25 seconds under red light

So?


If you ask me what I think of it
I would say it is the same emulsion as lith film put onto paper. Does that sound right for an offset printing/dot paper?
glbeas comment "..high contrast UV sensitive material for making negatives or positives to contact print lithographic plates with."
That seems good enough to go with. I don't know. Would UV paper expose under enlarger so quickly?
Autoscreen as Mike Wilde suggested?

The paper is very thin compared to normal RC photo paper ..comparable to the difference between lith film and normal. I thought it was plain paper at first.

I'll do more tests later or something but have stuff to do. I'll post a few results when I do.

 

[ginaw]

Lith printing - what it is

Clark - okay so lith printing has nothing to do with lith film other than the developers used in the printing process was originally designed to develop lith graphic films.

Lith printing is the process of highly overexposinga suitable b&w photographic paper and then only partially developing it in a highly dilutelith developer. (if you developed the print to completion it would be black.
The prints have the characteristic of being hard and gritty in the shadow areas and softer in the highlights. This is the only process that does this.

I teach this process at the Photographic Center Northwest but if you really want info from the Master of this process and my mentor - google the world of lith printing. Also his books are available here in the states. If you are just starting out the Master Lith Printing Course book is the one.

Good luck

Gina

Dot Works paper. Dot works is a graphic arts supply type company and actually have a website http://www.dotworks.com
They only list one paper there and it describes as metal-halide in need of UV lightsource..the .pdf directs to another product so no hope there.
What is metal halide? What kind of metal?
Anyway, I think this paper that I bought is a few years old so it may not even be the same type of paper as the one listed.

In the auction it was described as Lith/Insta-Lith/waterproof/
That is it. I figure waterproof just means RC.

I've read about Kodalith paper being a long gone, dearly missed Lith paper so I figured this may be a knockoff brand of that same type of product. Is it?

On the site you also see mention of VariDot paper
I checked that out and found a few posts -by the same guy- talking about an ilford paper called VariDot which is the same thing as Ilf MG IV.

Concerning Lith printing now
Why would Kodalith paper be used for lith printing when kodalith film is not? Is it about the look of the film only? What if kodalith was developed to CT and not Black/White ..could then be used for lith printing?

If using a Lith Paper -like that Kodalith- does one still use an A/B high-contrast developer like Kodalith or does one use a normal contrast developer allowing the paper to give the higher contrast effect?



If it's not usable for lith printing I'll just sell it again ..taking a loss most likely.
It was only $20 for 3 100 sheet boxes and a 4th previously opened so not a big deal


Clark

 

[ginaw]

PS metal hallide - as in silver hallide? which is all photographic papers.

gina

 

[sun of sand]

Hi, Gina
I've done some research into lith printing of photographs and all info seems to point back to Tim Rudman -Sorry If I spelled that incorrectly ..the guy you're speaking of, correct?

The print relies on paper that is suitable for lith ..but what in the case of Kodalith or other paper especially designed for lith? Kodalith film is a graphics art product so that Kodalith paper must also have been, right?
I don't know if the Kodalith paper was essentially the same emulsion as the lith film or whatever, but it seems to make sense that it would have been.
It seems to this newbie that the finding of paper that is "suitable for lith" is just the workaround for not having a paper available that was made for the purpose. ?

I don't know, that was another thing I was trying to find out about. What did people develop the papers made especially for lith in? It seems the same dilution of A/B developer (for normal paper) would produce even more contrasty results in a lith paper .. soooo an even higher dilution would be needed in order for the tones to stay the same

Edit
Maybe the great overexposure of normal paper is compensating for the effect of the lith developer? eh, nevermind.

I figure in using Dektol for a paper made for lith is in fact the same thing as using Dektol (or any other soft developer such as Kodalith or high dilutions of Rodinal etc ) to achieve continuous tone out of Lith type films.

This seems to be what I'm getting using this paper with Dektol. Rather ordinary tones ..as you'd expect of a normal contrast paper. BUT, I have only made 3 prints thus far and have not even tried Dektol straight yet to see if that increases contrast even more.
The Dektol 1:2 I used may actually be close to exhaustion.


Here is a quickly made straight print using this stuff. I enlarged onto it. Was like 28 seconds at f22.
The paper is thin and the edges ripple when soaked for too long and curls up in the corners when dried. Not glossy. I'm thinking the only sheen may be coming from the resin coating it?


I'm just glad I didn't spend $20 on drawing paper. Any results is good results.

 

[sun of sand]

I bought some Kodalith RT developer and played around a bit
This paper stays pretty cold-toned but picks up a hint of warmth that I call "copper"
Seems to effect shadow more

It's neat to play around with. I sent a message to Dot Works but received no reply
Other companies put out the same stuff. Northern Graphics Supply had the same material under same name, code # etc


The other two are ektamatic SC paper in lith
a creamy buff in the highlights but that's it. The neat thing it produces is large grain/pointillist effect.



I bought some kodalith autoscreen film just for the hell of it
I bought it for free, basically

I'll see what it does some day. Can you use it at all like type 3 kodalith?

 

[sun of sand]

they didn't post?





As for dilution I used somewhere in the 1:6 to 1:8
I'll try higher dilutions sometime soon to see if that draws out any color

 

[richard ide]

Kodalith Autoscreen film has a dot pattern (IIRC 133 lines per inch) integrated into the emulsion. When you photograph a photograph for offset printing, it is printed as a dot pattern. The size of the dots corresponds to the tones of the original photo. Using this film made it unnecesary to use a contact screen with lith film in a process camera. The dot pattern was embossed on the film surface and sensitized the emulsion to trigger development on the dots depending on the amount of exposure. (tone related). I don't know if it could be used for any other purpose, but would be interesting to experiment with.

 

[glbeas]

Your shots look good! Love the tones.