Bolex Paillard C8 8mm cine camera

John_A · Feb 5, 2017

Well, got my hands on one almost for free.
Couldnt resist, and here it is:

Built like a brick, all metal.
Now, this is a double 8mm camera, so there isnt a lot of options when it comes to film, Foma makes a reversal 8mm b&w, but thats just about it.
Its of course spring driven, the winding handle is seen at the bottom of the camera.

What really caught my attention was the small size of the thing:

It came with two lenses, both made in Japan,
A "Kinotel" 1.9 tele, and a "Kinotar" 1.9 wide.

Company logo?

It also came with the instructions/leaflets of the Kodochrome and Ferrania 8mm films.

I already have a Bolex 8mm projector, so at some point I would like to travel 6o years back in time and try this out.

removed account4 · Feb 5, 2017

not sure where you are located if in the states
contact fuji labs. they used to do pickup for all
of walmart's send out film which included movie film
( 16mm + 8mm ) at something like $5/100 foot roll.
have fun!

bsdunek · Feb 5, 2017

I have one of those. Has the original lens plus a zoom. Great little camera. Wish 8mm was more affordable - I really enjoyed making movies. Much more fun than video. Editing is sort of like darkroom work - you do it with your hands and then, there's the smell of the film cement.

John_A · Feb 5, 2017

Hi, no Im located in Europe. Since its double 8mm film, its basically is a 16mm roll wich is exposed twice by using one half (width) of the film and then reloading it and expose the other half. After development it has to be split down the middle and you end with two 8mm strips that are spliced together at the ends.
That + b&w reversal process make me believe that very few labs want to touch it, at least for a reasonable cost.
Im probably better off getting a cine development spool and drum + splicer and doing it all by myself, atleast if I decide to do more than 1 roll.

bsdunek · Feb 5, 2017

Yes, the film is 16mm wide, but it has twice the sprocket holes. 16mm movie film won't work. Double-8 B&W is available. Guess it's not too hard to process. Thought about trying it, but haven't yet done so.

John_A · Feb 5, 2017

A question: The c8 probably has the smallest viewfinder ever seen on a camera.. Its a tiny, tiny hole at the back. At the front there are interchangable, square glass frames with different grades of magnification depending on wich lens you use.
The viewfinder at the back have threads, making me think that there might be a accessory wich enlarge or improve it?

removed account4 · Feb 5, 2017

hi john

this site is gone now (http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/ ) but the internet archive still has records of it
http://web.archive.org/web/20040609100715/http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/
the metta directory had an enourmous amount of information for 8mm film makers/users, it might be helpful...
i picked a random date in 2004 for the target but it was around for quite some time so you will have a lot to look at.

i don't know about accessories for your c8, i used a b8 + h8 ( + h16 ) when i was using 8mm ( + 16mm )
the b8 had a similar viewfinder and a 2 lens turret, the h8 had a 3 lens turret, the only accessories i ever knew about
were the trigger grip, shutter release + tripod &c for doing stop motion imaging, i am sure i didn't know much of what was originally available.
if you don't know it, http://www.bolexcollector.com has lots of stuff.
the paliard kern lenses were really really nice !

have fun and good luck !
john

ps. make sure you de-wind your shutter spring when you store it ( don't store it wound up ) the springs
are usually the thing that goes, and some of the older cameras are known to have spring issues ...

btaylor · Feb 5, 2017

I don't recall any such accessory available, there might have been diopters for eyeglass users but that's about it. I had one of them when I was a kid. They are amazingly precise and solid for an amateur camera. Back in the day they were simply the best you could get.

John_A · Feb 5, 2017

Thanks, will have a look at the web archives.

Found this blog:
http://cinetinker.blogspot.se/2013/01/servicing-bolex-d8l.html?m=1

He does a complete overhaul of a d8l, the same mechanics as the c8, but with a 3 lens turret. Its a step by step guide with lots of pictures.

BAC1967 · Feb 5, 2017

John_A said:
Thanks, will have a look at the web archives.

Found this blog:
http://cinetinker.blogspot.se/2013/01/servicing-bolex-d8l.html?m=1

He does a complete overhaul of a d8l, the same mechanics as the c8, but with a 3 lens turret. Its a step by step guide with lots of pictures.[/QI

John_A said:
Thanks, will have a look at the web archives.

Found this blog:
http://cinetinker.blogspot.se/2013/01/servicing-bolex-d8l.html?m=1

He does a complete overhaul of a d8l, the same mechanics as the c8, but with a 3 lens turret. Its a step by step guide with lots of pictures.

I have restored several B8, C8 and D8 cameras following those instructions. If you are ok working with small screws and such it's not very hard and your camera will run like new. The C8 is a good camera for using a reflex zoom lens like the Som Berthiot Pan Cinor 12.5mm-36mm. You're not going to be able to shoot everything with that telephoto lens yours came with. I find that I use the Kern-Paillard 5.5mm wide angle lens the most followed by a Kern-Paillard 12.5mm lens. If you get a 5.5mm Kern-Paillard don't spend the extra for a Switar version, with that camera you will have to scale focus, the Pizar is much cheaper and will give you a very sharp image despite being a fixed focus lens. These tiny lenses have a very large depth of field.

In Europe you have Wittner-Cinetec for film and supplies. They will be perforating Ferrania film to Regular 8mm once production begins. Hopefully they will also do Ektachrome when it comes back.

http://www.wittner-cinetec.com/home.php

John_A · Feb 5, 2017

Aha, good to know that the instructions work, and that its doable for a hobbyist..

The c8 actually came with a second lens, a 6mm f1.9 of the same brand as the tele:

In the smallest of lens cases I've seen..

Thanks for the wittner url.. looking forward to the ferrania p30 in 8mm.

AgX · Feb 5, 2017

John_A said:
Now, this is a double 8mm camera, so there isnt a lot of options when it comes to film, Foma makes a reversal 8mm b&w, but thats just about it.

Not quite true. The german company Wittner-Cinetec for instance offers Agfa colour reversal and Filmotec b&w reversal film as Double-8.

ic-racer · Feb 5, 2017

One issue is that you need twice as many sprocket holes as 16mm. Kodak stopped punching all the holes a while back. With lenses of such short focal length, be careful of diffraction. I use ND filters and try not to stop beyond 3mm.

Some related 8mm APUG content:
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AgX · Feb 5, 2017

ic-racer said:
One issue is that you need twice as many sprocket holes as 16mm. Kodak stopped punching all the holes a while back.

I'm puzzled. Do you mean Kodak cancelled manufacture of Double-8 due to the quantity of holes?

The productivity of a perforator is not dependant on the number of holes, but the advance/time. And that for a part is dependant on the length of the tool. The number of holes is of indirect influence.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 5, 2017

Kodak wanted to promote Super-8, which, while having the same width, has a larger image area and redesigned sprocket holes. "Regular" 8mm started on the path of extinction in 1965.

ic-racer · Feb 5, 2017

AgX said:
I'm puzzled. Do you mean Kodak cancelled manufacture of Double-8 due to the quantity of holes?

The productivity of a perforator is not dependant on the number of holes, but the advance/time. And that for a part is dependant on the length of the tool. The number of holes is of indirect influence.

They stopped punching all the holes needed for Regular-8, and only punching the holes for 16mm format. Basically they stopped production of the Regular-8 film, but, of course they still make the film!! They just won't perforate it with enough perforations for Regular-8 any more.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

John_A · Feb 12, 2017

So, Ive thought a bit about this. I have not disassembled the c8 yet, but plan to do it when I get more time.
In my mind, there has to be some kind of gear or pulley with cogs that fits inte the holes of the double8 film strip and governs the film speed.
If that is the case, wouldnt it be possible to 3d-print a new gear with teeth that are adjusted for 16mm film hole spacing?
As long as the gear diameter are kept the same?

AgX · Feb 12, 2017

But the gear would be the least difficulty.

Think of:

-) frame window size

-) frame window position

-) lens position

-) lens coverage

Some 16mm and Double8/DoubleSuper-8 cameras are the same except for those points above.

GRHazelton · Feb 12, 2017

Nice thread. My daughter, while a visiting professor at - where I don't quite remember - had a chance encounter with one of the 16mm Bolex cameras. While she is not a photographer, and I don't know the nature of the encounter with the Bolex, she marveled at the fit and finish and essential "rightness" of the camera.

GRHazelton · Feb 12, 2017

Nice thread. My daughter, while a visiting professor at - where I don't quite remember - had a chance encounter with one of the 16mm Bolex cameras. While she is not a photographer, and I don't know the nature of the encounter with the Bolex, she marveled at the fit and finish and essential "rightness" of the camera.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 12, 2017

John_A said:
...In my mind, there has to be some kind of gear or pulley with cogs that fits inte the holes of the double8 film strip and governs the film speed...

Usually a ratchet and pawl that engages a sprocket hole and pulls the film down for a distance of one frame.

Dan Fromm · Feb 12, 2017

In my cine cameras the pull down claw actually pushes the film down.

BAC1967 · Feb 12, 2017

John_A said:
So, Ive thought a bit about this. I have not disassembled the c8 yet, but plan to do it when I get more time.
In my mind, there has to be some kind of gear or pulley with cogs that fits inte the holes of the double8 film strip and governs the film speed.
If that is the case, wouldnt it be possible to 3d-print a new gear with teeth that are adjusted for 16mm film hole spacing?
As long as the gear diameter are kept the same?

You wouldn't be able to 3D print such a precision part, it's a metal arm that is moved up and down with a precision bearing. You would have to change more than just that part. if you want to shoot 16mm film you would do better to buy a 16mm camera.

John_A · Feb 13, 2017

Well, the idea is to use 16mm film as double8, exposing it twice. It would give access to Kodak tri-x reversal and vision3 films.
With 3d printing i meant metal 3d laser sintering (titanium or steel) since I know a few people in that business. It has a precision of 0,01mm or better.
But the next step is modifying a projector the same way.. Probably not worth it..

Europan · Feb 13, 2017

http://www.toeppenfilm.com/

http://www.kahlfilm.de/content.php?nav=7

https://fomaobchod.cz/blackwhitereversalfilms/

Bolex Paillard C8 8mm cine camera

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