Bokeh! 35mm vs 6x7

E. von Hoegh · Apr 24, 2013

TheFlyingCamera said:
Billy Dee Williams is still alive...

So is George Kennedy... I think.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 24, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
I love walking around on a rainy day with high-speed film and a Nikon with an 85/1.4 tucked under my
parka, often shot wide open. I briefly become a "bokeh" maniac on such days. But 95% of the time, I'm shooting sheet film as sharp as I can get it. I judge the results by the print itself, and couldn't care less how or when the term itself is used, or if it even existed in the first place.

I like the OOFAs my 105/2.5 gives. But my favorites are my old Dagors - to use the Flying Camera's rating system, the Dagor's OOFAs are as clean as a popcorn fart.

DREW WILEY · Apr 24, 2013

Indeed! I'll scout around with that Nikon and make a nice little print of something or other, then go back to the same location under similar circumstances (with a waterproof Goretex darkcloth) with a Dagor on my 8x10, expose one sheet of film, and wow.

lxdude · Apr 24, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
They still make Colt Malt Liquor?

No, they make Colt 45 malt liquor!

JBrunner · Apr 24, 2013

Personally, if I find myself navel gazing a photography term, it's generally high time I pulled my head out and go make some negatives. Ymmv.

StoneNYC · Apr 24, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
To translate something. Yes, that's just about exactly what I meant.

You're very full of yourself, aren't you? Here, see if you can translate this: "Ma gavte la nata". And while you're at it, get a better dictionary. I recommend the Second Webster's Unabridged, The Oxford, or the Third Webster's Unabridged.

Have a lovely day.

Post Scriptum - You misspelled "Bokeh". Twice.

I'm busting on you, don't get your panties in a bunch

And you're right, I misspelled it haha, Stone Fail! Lol

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

StoneNYC · Apr 24, 2013

JBrunner said:
Personally, if I find myself navel gazing a photography term, it's generally high time I pulled my head out and go make some negatives. Ymmv.

What does "navel gazing" mean?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

MattKing · Apr 25, 2013

StoneNYC said:
What does "navel gazing" mean?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Careful, deliberate contemplation, among other things.

lxdude · Apr 25, 2013

StoneNYC said:
What does "navel gazing" mean?

Here, it means "What am I going to do with all the oranges on my tree?"

E. von Hoegh · Apr 25, 2013

StoneNYC said:
What does "navel gazing" mean?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Omphaloskepsis.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 25, 2013

StoneNYC said:
What does "navel gazing" mean?

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

In this context, losing sight of one's priorities by over-intellectualizing.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 25, 2013

JBrunner said:
Personally, if I find myself navel gazing a photography term, it's generally high time I pulled my head out and go make some negatives. Ymmv.

If only I could... APUG is a relief from a combination of school work and work work overload. If I could actually spare some real length of time to go outside and do something with a camera, I would be a much happier person.

StoneNYC · Apr 25, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
Omphaloskepsis.

Haha nice, see, words are useful

MattKing said:
Careful, deliberate contemplation, among other things.

Thanks Matt

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

E. von Hoegh · Apr 25, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Haha nice, see, words are useful

Thanks Matt

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's one of my favorites: "parablepsy". B0&#h is related to parablepsy.

DREW WILEY · Apr 25, 2013

I should mention the true story of the etymology of bokeh. It all began with a rude rare lens dealer in
Brooklyn, who specialized in optics with unusual out-of-focus characteristics. If anyone phoned to ask
the price, he'd reply, "Yeh wanna be broke, eh?" So these started being known as "brokeh" lenses. Since
the Japanese don't have a sound for "r", this was simply contracted to "bokeh". Analogously, the Aussies pronounce it "breykey", and the French "breukeaux". Meanwhile, the pronunciation has continued to degrade in Brooklyn itself, where it now pronounced, "beahhhkay".

StoneNYC · Apr 25, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
I should mention the true story of the etymology of bokeh. It all began with a rude rare lens dealer in
Brooklyn, who specialized in optics with unusual out-of-focus characteristics. If anyone phoned to ask
the price, he'd reply, "Yeh wanna be broke, eh?" So these started being known as "brokeh" lenses. Since
the Japanese don't have a sound for "r", this was simply contracted to "bokeh". Analogously, the Aussies pronounce it "breykey", and the French "breukeaux". Meanwhile, the pronunciation has continued to degrade in Brooklyn itself, where it now pronounced, "beahhhkay".

I don't know if I believe that story....

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

StoneNYC · Apr 25, 2013

E. von Hoegh said:
Here's one of my favorites: "parablepsy". B0&#h is related to parablepsy.

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 25, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
I should mention the true story of the etymology of bokeh. It all began with a rude rare lens dealer in
Brooklyn, who specialized in optics with unusual out-of-focus characteristics. If anyone phoned to ask
the price, he'd reply, "Yeh wanna be broke, eh?" So these started being known as "brokeh" lenses. Since
the Japanese don't have a sound for "r", this was simply contracted to "bokeh". Analogously, the Aussies pronounce it "breykey", and the French "breukeaux". Meanwhile, the pronunciation has continued to degrade in Brooklyn itself, where it now pronounced, "beahhhkay".

That is a strange piece of writing.
For those who have any interest in it at all (not many!), Australians pronounce it as boke'. I should know, I am Australian!
Where did you get the "breykey" from (it sounds truer to what we call "brekkie"/ breakfast)? Or, quelle horreur, the French "breukeuax"?? :confused:

lxdude · Apr 25, 2013

Drew just wanted to give some background to bokeh. So of course, the more fuzzy and indistinct, the better.

polyglot · Apr 26, 2013

I think Drew was being a comedian.

It is a Japanese word (Romaji: boke; pronounced as two syllables, soft vowels in both), the literal translation being "blur". Us westerners like to append the h so that other ignorant roundeyes don't pronounce it as rhyming with broke.

You can verify that by asking a native Japanese speaker if you like...

lxdude · Apr 26, 2013

polyglot said:
I think Drew was being a comedian.

Yep. But remember, our antipodean friend is reading it upside down.

It is a Japanese word (Romaji: boke; pronounced as two syllables, soft vowels in both), the literal translation being "blur". Us westerners like to append the h so that other ignorant roundeyes don't pronounce it as rhyming with broke.

Which is why I don't like it. It's awkward to say and awkward to use.
At best it gets pronounced bokay or bokuh, because in English an "eh" on the end of of a word is never pronounced like the "e" in "end".
So: to describe a property of lenses, Mike Johnston introduced a word that no one understood the meaning of, and which no English speaker would know how to pronounce properly, and might not be able to even after having it explained. Further, the property is judged subjectively, ensuring that there would be misuse whenever his intended exact meaning of the word is not understood.

Johnston's attempt to bring clarity to a concept by introducing a standard word for it instead created a muddled linguistic and conceptual mess.

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 26, 2013

My niece is a Japanese teacher/translator as part of International Baccalaureate Program, Australia-Japan. But having told her about the origin of the word she has never heard of it (maybe because she is not a photographer). "Never mind, never mind...".

E. von Hoegh · Apr 26, 2013

lxdude said:
Yep. But remember, our antipodean friend is reading it upside down.

Which is why I don't like it. It's awkward to say and awkward to use.
At best it gets pronounced bokay or bokuh, because in English an "eh" on the end of of a word is never pronounced like the "e" in "end".
So: to describe a property of lenses, Mike Johnston introduced a word that no one understood the meaning of, and which no English speaker would know how to pronounce properly, and might not be able to even after having it explained. Further, the property is judged subjectively, ensuring that there would be misuse whenever his intended exact meaning of the word is not understood.

Johnston's attempt to bring clarity to a concept by introducing a standard word for it instead created a muddled linguistic and conceptual mess.

Amen.

Dr Croubie · Apr 26, 2013

lxdude said:
Johnston's attempt to bring clarity to a concept by introducing a standard word for it instead created a muddled linguistic and conceptual mess.

I think this Johnston guy was probably a very smart man at linguistics and poetry, and knew exactly what he was doing.
There's no "real" definition of bokeh, certainly no real definition of what's good and what's bad bokeh.
By introducing a word with no set pronunciation to a concept with no real definition, he's holding up a mirror to our own understanding of the entire world.
Pretty much in the same way that Claude Lévi-Strauss was talking about 'floating signifiers', something that has no meaning and thus can receive any meaning, as does the word bokeh have no pronunciation and thus can receive any pronunciation.

DREW WILEY · Apr 26, 2013

Well... (fact this time around)... long before this term, cut-rate wedding photographers who couldn't
afford fancy lenses had a different term for it: Vaseline.

Bokeh! 35mm vs 6x7

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Bokeh! 35mm vs 6x7

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