Blue stuff filtered out of my fix after CHS100 ii

[Dustin McAmera]

I'm in the habit of filtering my fixer after each use, because it does seem to pick up dust. Anyhow, I have noticed that when I have developed CHS100ii the filter paper collects a small deposit of something cyan blue in colour. Is this anti-halation material? The film and the fix seem fine.
I have had this with 35mm and 120. I haven't had any CHS100ii in sheets yet - I still have some old CHS100!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Interesting... Are you pre-washing? I've not tried version ii yet. Sorry for going off topic, but have you noticed much difference between the two versions, other than the bit of blue?

 

[Dustin McAmera]

I didn't pre-wash these. I don't usually pre-wash film unless I'm specifically told to by the maker, or I'm using a developer that I'll reuse. I rarely do that; I like the convenience of one-shot developers that keep the same dev times, and nice long times at that.

I'm not in a position to compare old and new CHS100 yet. I'm coming back from a bit of a hiatus in my film photography, so I am late to the party re CHS100ii. As I said, I have a bit of a stock of the old film, including some quarter plate. I hope that's ok - I have been punished for using up some old film that had degraded in my cupboards.

Having watched some of your videos, I would also say I'm shy of putting anything on here based on my own slapdash practice, but I will post again here when I have seen some of these photos as positives. I have half a dozen films sitting in paper filing pages waiting to be scanned (that is what I do); and another still hanging to dry. All that scanning just looks like a big chore at the moment.

 

[pentaxuser]

Can I ask: Before you filter your fix, can you observe any blue specks in it? I ask because in the few videos about I have seen no-one seems to mention any blue/cyan specks after filtration but this does not mean there aren't there but simply that if no-one filters their fixer it may not show up

Are these small deposits of blue solid or do they dissolve/disintegrate in your fingers if you touch them?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Dustin McAmera]

This doesn't appear as visible specks. I suppose it's particulate, because it collects in a paper filter ; but it's sufficiently fine that I see a general blue 'stain' on the paper. I should have put one aside from yesterday's session.

The used fix is often a bit yellow; that fades , or so it seems to me, over a few hours. It's still yellow after filtering. I am keeping it in a one-litre Schott borosilicate glass lab bottle. Now the lids on these are blue plastic, and I did wonder if this is how lab bottle caps die; but it seems improbable (and it's not the same kind of blue).

For clarity, I ran out of 'proper' filter papers, and I have been doing this with coffee filter papers. I suppose there could be something in the paper, that's reacting. I will have a hunt around and see if I really don't have any echt lab filters left. I have just ferretted in the kitchen bin, and found one of the papers. It is still blue-green in the bottom of the cone; higher up, there is an orange-brown stain. That could just be transferred from coffee filters that had actual coffee in. My thinking brain wants it to be ferrous iron (blue-green) turning into ferric iron, but I can't think where the iron would be from.

(unless my developing tank is dissolving... )

 

[Dustin McAmera]

That nobody has offered an easy explanation suggests to me this is something I have done (read 'done wrong').

Just for fun, I cut a strip of the filter paper; still very slightly damp, and still faintly but distinctly blue-green, and held it in a fast gas flame to see if I could get a flame colour, but I could only see the bright orange you get with carbon. This isn't much help; I can't say the colour isn't a metal; just that I have failed to show that it is one.

 

[pentaxuser]

Try not filtering your fix and see what happens to the blue specs. Do they disappear? I am unclear of what if any effect these specks have on the negative. After washing the negs do you see anything on them and what happens when the neg is printed ie. is the print affected?

If there are no ill effects then I'd be tempted to just ignore the dust. If it is that bad that you feel uncomfortable with dusty fix even if it is not harming neg or print then you might want to see what you can do about the source of the dust. When I use film fix it sits in a screwed-tight bottle at 1+4 until I pour it into the tank where a tank lid is already on top When I pour it out it goes into an open graduate for a few moments before being poured back into its bottle so dust is never a problem However you would appear to have a different routine which leaves the fix vulnerable to dust

Assuming you do darkroom printing then of course this is different in that open trays are usually used so, yes, the tray with fixer might lie there for a few hours and be more open to dust but if this is the source of dust in the fixer then I'd have thought that a search for the cause of this amount of dust is worthwhile. In the latter case of print fix I assume that print-fix is a separate fix and kept separate from film-fixer

I would not use the same fix for film and paper

Based on the above I do wonder if the blue specks might be from another source.

Finally if it has anything to do with the anti-halation dye in the film then try a thorough pre-wet for several minutes and then pour it out If the blue is in the dye then it should show up in the pre-wash water you dump

pentaxuser

 

[Dustin McAmera]

As I said, there are no 'specks'. Even under a magnifier, I don't see the colour as particles in the filter paper; just colour, as if the paper were soaked in brightly-coloured liquid. I only infer that it's particulate because it appeared in a filter.

I don't print, so this fix is only used for film. The fix is Adox rapid fixer; ammonium thiosulphate in acetic acid solution.


This morning, I took two of my tanks, which are both stainless steel. I put a 120 spiral in one of them, and half-filled each of them with fixer. I ldidn't pput a lid on; just left them for ten minutes, after knocking any bubbles off. I wanted to see if I got bubbles of hydrogen (corresponding to iron dissolving from the tank wall or the spiral), though such a simple reaction seemed unlikely. I didn't see any.

I now suspect this is nothing to do with CHS100ii. I think what I am seeing may be a reaction happening with something in the unofficial filter paper. The packet stresses that it's natural cellulose paper, bleached with peroxide not chlorine. When I have a moment, I may experiment with the paper.
I had quite a stock of proper lab filter papers - rescued from going into a skip when I worked at the university. I would hate to have to buy that stuff with my own money.


Here, I fixed a six-inch length of film in about 100ml of fixer. I filtered the used fix (on the right) and some from the same bottle but not used since the day before yesterday (and not used since I last filtered it) on the left. So I think the colour is coming from the film; but I don't think it's particulate; I think it might be attaching chemically to the cellulose in the paper. I don't think any of this is a real problem. If I don't filter the fix, the stuff will accumulate in the fix, but this batch of fix won't last forever.

Thanks all for thinking about my problem!

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Later I developed a 35mm roll, still CHS100ii (in Adox FX-39 ii 1+19), and I filtered both the dev, before discrading it, and the fix, which is the same batch as before. The used dev looks like the vinegar in a jar of pickled onions, but you get this pink colour in the filter paper.


The fix gave the same cyan blue as before, but more of it:

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Later I developed a 35mm roll, still CHS100ii (in Adox FX-39 ii 1+19), and I filtered both the dev, before discrading it, and the fix, which is the same batch as before. The used dev looks like the vinegar in a jar of pickled onions, but you get this pink colour in the filter paper.


The fix gave the same cyan blue as before, but more of it:

We use a mix of two dies to make up the "black" AH/AHU layers. Both dyes are process instable but behave slightly differently (as they are different molecules). While the magenta dye gets already removed in the developer (mostly) the cyan dye gets washed out by the fixer. In any event this does not matter to you and the dyes are not very stable so even if your fixer turns slightly blue after a few days it will clear.