Bleaching Prints

[Ian Grant]

Ian : this sounds pretty logical, what do you think. If I bleach and refix after selenium, then move to my sepia tone and gold for the look, ??

Sounds logical. Changing the sequence will change the look, it's more about being consistent.

Ian

 

[Bob Carnie]

Andrew
I stopped using the Kodak kits a few years ago and mix from scratch now thanks to Ian.

Bob... I know you use Kodak Sepia II kits for split tonig. I'd use the part A bleach from one of those packs. I find the stock pot ferri bleach solution to be VERY strong acting. For split toning my prints I dilute it 1:6 or more to get better control over this step and usually for no longer than 30 or 40 seconds. For what you are doing, stock solution might be the ticket to brighten those dull highlights, and crispen them up nicely. I assume you are leaving out the sulphide step and going straight to selenium. That said, the bleach alone at that strenght will tend warm things a little anyway.

 

[Bob Carnie]

G

Yes, but the problem is I want to brighten the highlights before I go to the toning stage. otherwise I make my prints too brown by toning right after the bleach.
therefore the first bleach to lift the highlights without affecting the blacks.

Hi Bob,
I often do this selenium/bleach/sepia. You don't need to fix because you go to sepia.
If you just do selenium and bleach, then you fix and wash.
Z.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Thanks Ian.
I plan to make a complete edition of 11x14 AP's before I get to the small edition set.
I have a show in Feb that I want to nail the print look before hand.
I am planning to try Ilford matte as this is a great paper for the look I am trying to achieve, this paper tones lovely.


thanks every one for the advice/help.

Sounds logical. Changing the sequence will change the look, it's more about being consistent.

Ian

 

[Bob Carnie]

Here are a couple a d** sample's of the look i am trying to achieve.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Great stuff Bob

 

[Bob Carnie]

Thanks Guillaume, send me a email need to talk about some stuff.

Jerry

Great stuff Bob

 

[RalphLambrecht]

... Perhaps a simpler explanation is that Ferricyanide on it's own attacks the smaller grains first, that's why it's used with or without bromide for split toning, but with Thiosulphate added Farmers Reducers attacks the larger "black" grains as well at the same time. ...

Ian

At first, I thought this made sense, but after doing a test last night, I'm starting to doubt it. I compared the two methods on two identical step-tablet prints, and there is absolutely no visible difference. I'll take some densitometer measurements as soon as I get to it. Maybe that will show a difference.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am going with 30grams to 10 litre as suggested , made the prints and now I will do the bleach and report back . I have made five fairly identical 11x14 of one neg on three different papers, Ilford mg4matte and gloss and Ilford warmtone.
I hope to tri tone tommorow and will let you all know how I feel after this.

thanks to all.

There's too many variables Bob. However a 100g/litre of each diluted 1+10 works very fast, that's 10g/litre, your talking a touch under 3g/litre, I'd start by diluting that a further 1+9 (1:10) so you have about 3g/litre Ferricyanide & KBr

One nice point about using this bleach is if it goes too far, you just wash and re-develop, the room light is usually sufficient to re-expose the bleached emulsion.

Ian

 

[CBG]

The reversibility of a ferri/bromide bleach is a godsend. Knowing you have a fall-back strategy frees you. Bleaching can be very finicky, and easy to overdo; the second chance the bromide gives you is an insurance policy.

 

[StigHagen]

is there no need to refixing using Farmers Reducer? just proceed with normal washing?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

is there no need to refixing using Farmers Reducer? just proceed with normal washing?

It's advisable to re-fix in fresh fixer after Farmers Reducer as fixing may not have been complete.

 

[MMfoto]

Does anyone here bleach as a standard part of their print process?

There's a great Seattle area photographer who's known for "printing down, and bleaching up."

www.jerrygay.com

(He won himself a Pulitzer too, btw)

 

[StigHagen]

It's advisable to re-fix in fresh fixer after Farmers Reducer as fixing may not have been complete.

can I mix parts of the package, or is it nescessary to mix it all at once?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

can I mix parts of the package, or is it nescessary to mix it all at once?

Mix potassium ferricyanide and fixer only as needed, as the mixture has a very low shelve life. That's why I never buy Farmers Reducer. I just buy the potassium ferricyanide, prepare a 1% solution and mix it with fixer as needed or use them in sequence.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Does anyone here bleach as a standard part of their print process? ...

I do it on a regular basis. Bleaching and toning makes a big difference.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Yes
a lot of printers , myself included would do this to lift the highlights.

Does anyone here bleach as a standard part of their print process?

There's a great Seattle area photographer who's known for "printing down, and bleaching up."

www.jerrygay.com

(He won himself a Pulitzer too, btw)

 

[Marco Buonocore]

Ferricyanide stock

Will Potassium Ferricyanide keep as a stock solution, in a brown glass bottle?

I make a 10% Potassium Bromide solution. Could I do the same with the ferri?

Thanks!

 

[Bob Carnie]

Marco
I mix and dump each time, Nymoc will sell the chems in larger containers and it is pretty cheap, the sulphide as well.

Will Potassium Ferricyanide keep as a stock solution, in a brown glass bottle?

I make a 10% Potassium Bromide solution. Could I do the same with the ferri?

Thanks!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Will Potassium Ferricyanide keep as a stock solution, in a brown glass bottle?

I make a 10% Potassium Bromide solution. Could I do the same with the ferri?

Thanks!

From what I can tell, it lasts for a long time (years). I usually make a 1% solution with distilled water, but anyway, dry potassium ferricyanide keeps for decades.

 

[Ian Grant]

My Potassium Ferricyanide (dry crystals) is over 30 years old and still fine, and a 10% stock solution will keep a long time as well.

Ian

 

[StigHagen]

From what I can tell, it lasts for a long time (years). I usually make a 1% solution with distilled water, but anyway, dry potassium ferricyanide keeps for decades.

why distilled water?

 

[Ian Grant]

why distilled water?

Storing such a weak solution distilled is better, however it's more normal to store as a 10% solution, and it all depends on how pure your tap water is if you don't use deionised or distilled water.

Ian

 

[StigHagen]

Storing such a weak solution distilled is better, however it's more normal to store as a 10% solution, and it all depends on how pure your tap water is if you don't use deionised or distilled water.

Ian

So you store it in 10% solution and then everytime you need to bleach you mix some of it to make a more dilute solution? The more dilute solution to you discard it after use or can it be saved for a prolonged time?

I have som very dilute solution I mixed a year ago and Im still using it. Is that a problem?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I keep 10% ferricyanide and 3.5% potassium bromide solutions on hand and mix equal amounts of them with differing amounts of water to make working solutions of a rehalogenating bleach. The stronger, the faster acting. It's easy to start weak and work up.

I use small amounts of working solution, so I toss it after use (for example, if I have just a few highlights to do on a print, I start with 10ml of water with 10-20 drops of each stock solution). A liter each of stock lasts a long time

My stock solutions here in Vienna are going on 6 years and doing fine still.

BTW, I use the same bleach for SLIMT contractions and for bleach-redevelopment of negatives when I need that.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com