Black spots on Pan F 120 - cause?

Shadow 2

A
Shadow 2

  • 0
  • 0
  • 7
Shadow 1

A
Shadow 1

  • 1
  • 0
  • 9
Darkroom c1972

A
Darkroom c1972

  • 1
  • 2
  • 20
Tōrō

H
Tōrō

  • 4
  • 0
  • 38

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,825
Messages
2,781,472
Members
99,718
Latest member
nesunoio
Recent bookmarks
0

johnielvis

Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
966
Format
Medium Format
HEY....here's what I was looking for a year ago--I determined it was the film too--although when I brought out this problem to another photo online community, my results were poo poo'ed and the popular opinion was that I was to blame for the spot problem. Nice to see that other people have the exact same problem and have made the exact same determinations--it's the film.

I also suspected that it's a result of storage conditions/refrigeration, but I have nowhere near enough information on how my film was stored before I got it, so this is, at best, speculation.

HOWEVER--maybe it's something else--I got black spots on REVERSAL processed film. So if the spots are black in the negative AND black in the positive, then maybe it's something else.

I've also thought it maybe some gelatain globules with dark dye in them are seeping out or breaking free from the edges/corners of the film and going into the processing solution and thence adhering to the film surface--or something that causes teeny black particles to form in the processing (or be liberated) which adhere to the film and stick when drying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP

Michael W

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,594
Location
Sydney
Format
Multi Format
Have you tried exposing a roll in a regular camera to see if the spots are still there? Or develope a roll in other developer to see if the spots are still there? Just curious. I have 200 ft of bulk 35mm that I have to use and am interested in the outcome.
The first time I had the problem was in Rodinal & more recently it happened with Xtol, so there's two devs.
Both rolls were from a Zero Image pinhole camera, but there's nothing about pinhole that's going to make black spots appear across all frames. I've done multiple of rolls of Tmax 100, Tri-X and Portra 160 in the same camera with not even one spot. This was always 120 of course, I haven't heard about this happening on 35mm.
 
  • Deleted member 2924
  • Deleted
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
1
Format
Multi Format
Black Spots on Pan F negatives

I just processed several rolls of 120 Pan F film that I had shot but did not process for about 5 years. They were kept in their boxes in my basement office, but not refrigerated.
The image quality was severely degraded and covered with black spots. I then tried processing rolls of Tri-X that were shot at the same time and kept under the same conditions.
The Tri-X didn't show any degradation of the image or have any black spots. Both processed in DD-X. Apparently Pan F does not hold up under long term storage.
 

tanzanite

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
1
Format
Medium Format
I processed 10 rolls of Pan F+ 120 in Adox Adonal 1+50 at home and all the rolls having same spot, sample attached.

IMG_1654.jpg IMG_1653.jpg
 

dr5chrome

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
461
Format
Medium Format
..forget those 'poo-poo' replies! This condition is most definitely the film. ILFORD has never addressed this issue. We dont know what actually causes it, but suspect this happen to long cold stored film. Something in the paper is causing a reaction in the emulsion.

dw /dr5.com



HEY....here's what I was looking for a year ago--I determined it was the film too--although when I brought out this problem to another photo online community, my results were poo poo'ed and the popular opinion was that I was to blame for the spot problem. Nice to see that other people have the exact same problem and have made the exact same determinations--it's the film.

I also suspected that it's a result of storage conditions/refrigeration, but I have nowhere near enough information on how my film was stored before I got it, so this is, at best, speculation.

HOWEVER--maybe it's something else--I got black spots on REVERSAL processed film. So if the spots are black in the negative AND black in the positive, then maybe it's something else.

I've also thought it maybe some gelatain globules with dark dye in them are seeping out or breaking free from the edges/corners of the film and going into the processing solution and thence adhering to the film surface--or something that causes teeny black particles to form in the processing (or be liberated) which adhere to the film and stick when drying.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,708
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
I think Dr.5 is onto something - storage conditions.

It would be simple to see by taking some rolls of Pan-F+ in 35mm and 120, some protected from moisture, and others not, stick them in a freezer for a couple of years, and then test them.

As a general rule I do not freeze or cold store my film. I just keep it in the basement, protected from moisture, and I usually don't have more than 50 rolls of either 120 or 35mm at any given time, so that I rotate my inventory often. I haven't shot a lot of Ilford film in my life, it's been mostly Kodak, but the films that I have had problems with were those that had been frozen for a long time (by others). Some of it was Pan-F+, some of it was Agfa APX 25, and some Efke 100.

Good luck to you all in solving this. I recommend Ilford uses Simon Galley to collect samples from those that are having problems, maybe even exchange a few rolls of long time frozen film for fresh film - and run some tests... A logistical challenge and nightmare, but the remedy could be as simple as having defined recommendations of how to store the film.
 

zolac

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6
Format
Medium Format
I think I found the problem: the protective paper has been changed it is more granular and when making long time exposure the paper refers to the light and brand the film here is a picture of the difference between the two papers
28509771133_38b521f301_c.jpg
 

Chris Livsey

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
635
Format
Medium Format
Thank you for updating this thread. However the effect of the backing paper over time or poor storage will not show the spots complained of here. That effect looks like this on HP5+ 120, which you will note matches the "pattern" on the paper you show:

15888751382_5a02878ac4.jpg
 

pentaxpete

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
635
Location
Brentwood, England
Format
Multi Format
I had one case of Pan F Spots -- it was dated 1978 and been in fridge for years -- I think it could be the backing paper reacting -- I used MK35 Formula ( a 'Single-Solution Beutler ) formula I made up myself. Camera was a 2002 Hasselblad 501CM + 80mm f2.8 CFE Planar.
Modern London by Peter Elgar, on Flickr
 

bvy

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
3,285
Location
Pittsburgh
Format
Multi Format
I think I found the problem: the protective paper has been changed it is more granular and when making long time exposure the paper refers to the light and brand the film here is a picture of the difference between the two papers
Are you suggesting that the grain patter on the right is due to the backing paper? I would beg to differ. That grain structure is characteristic of the emulsion (regardless of format). I've gotten similar results on Pan F in Diafine, 35mm.
 

zolac

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6
Format
Medium Format
It is a comparison between protection papers. that's the only difference I found between films that I used before and those that pose a problem today.
 

Gerald C Koch

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8,131
Location
Southern USA
Format
Multi Format
I have seen spotting with old or improperly stored roll film although most samples have larger spots. It seems to be associated with the film backing paper.
 

Elias

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
16
Location
presently in CH
Format
Multi Format
For the first time in +30 years of darkroom, I experienced lots of black spots on films, whatever the film make or format, on roll films and sheet films. Obviously all those negatives were absolutely useless and ruined, with no clear explanation as I had not changed my process.

After checking all the obvious and more dubious sources of contamination throughout the process, the very last on my list was the wetting agent, normally a reliable old friend....
The bottle was a few years old and proved to be the culprit, films dried w/out the help of the wetting agent being absolutely clean, except for a few expected drying marks. Swapping for a brand new wetting agent solved completely and immediately my problem.

Hope this helps
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom