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blockend

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On prints and scans I sometimes get small black dots or specks, usually in a light area in close proximity to a darker area of the image. Most noticeable with Rodinal on slower film emulsions, like FP4+ or Fomapan 100.

If I ever knew what caused it I've certainly forgotten, can anyone clear things up?
 

Sirius Glass

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Have you checked the negatives for dust? Do you use a surfactant like PhotoFlo? Post the negative and the print please.
 
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Dust on the film is the #1 cause of this, either at the time of exposure or during printing/scanning. Dust on the film during exposure leaves a small unexposed (clear) area that should be able to be seen clearly with a good light source and a loupe. The result (with negative film) is a black dot on the final print. The opposite happens when dust is on the film when printing/scanning; the result then is a white dot on the print.

Best,

Doremus
 
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blockend

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No guys, it isn't dust. It's as if the darker areas of the scan or print - clear parts of negative - have silver particles that have drifted away into surrounding light. They don't occur in other areas.
 

Sirius Glass

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Are the silver molecules upsetting the scanning software?
 

NB23

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Tried to look at the negstives with a loupe?
 

koraks

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No guys, it isn't dust. It's as if the darker areas of the scan or print - clear parts of negative - have silver particles that have drifted away into surrounding light. They don't occur in other areas.
Well, since the clear areas of the film don't have much in the way of 'silver particles' (low or no density after all), it isn't an issue of particles drifting into the light areas. Of course, specks of material on the film (whether in light or dark areas) will show up as white on the positive/print.

Can you post an example? Perhaps that helps nailing the issue down.
 
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blockend

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Unfortunately I can't post examples. Frustratingly, I recall the issue coming up before, probably on here but can't find the thread. It's something to do with development I think and has occurred on Ilford, Foma, even Lucky B&W film. In the past I've cloned the black spots out in Photoshop. It isn't a big deal, thanks all I'll keep looking.
 
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blockend

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How is your fixer and final wash/rinse?
The fixer is good, I suspected its age but did a clip test and clearing times are short. My washing regimen is ten changes of fresh water, x ten tank inversions. Leave the negatives to soak for half an hour in clean water, then 3 x 10 also in clean water. The wash was based on photographic tests for Antarctic research, where all water was snow melt and fuel had to be carried. The soak is an extra precaution from reading an old article on sheet film development. A chemist discovered chemical agents migrated away from the film surface by soaking. The 3 x 10 finish is plain superstition. I add a microscopic amount of soft detergent in the final rinse.
 
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blockend

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Are the silver molecules upsetting the scanning software?
That isn't as crazy as it sounds. Is glass reflection/refraction scattering light, which is being interpreted by the software as a solid artefact? It's possible my observations are based on scanned prints, not silver. Can't get into the darkroom until evening, it'll be interesting to see if it occurs through an enlarger.
 

canuhead

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too bad you can't post a pic of the spots, as that would help greatly. even a crop of said spots, if you don't want to post the entire print, or scan.
 
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blockend

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too bad you can't post a pic of the spots, as that would help greatly. even a crop of said spots, if you don't want to post the entire print, or scan.
Only members can post images. I don't have an on line archive to link.
 

MattKing

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Only members can post images. I don't have an on line archive to link.
You can post images in threads - just use the "Upload image or File" tab at the bottom of the Reply box.
There are size limitations. For B&W, I find 1200 pixels on the long side is about the maximum. 800 pixels on the long side works for colour.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Here is blockend's example...

black specks.jpg
 
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blockend

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Here is blockend's example...
Thanks for the help, Andrew. This is a small portion of a scanned negative. The specks occur where dark and light areas meet, there's a complete absence elsewhere in the image. I don't think it's a digital artefact, the black dots aren't geometrically pixelated and seem quite random. Nor are they associated with any particular object, surface or texture. It looks most like a grain aggregation of some kind.

FP4+, Rodinal 1:50, gentle agitation every 30 secs. Scanned at 3200 dpi on Epson V500.
 
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blockend

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Very strange, indeed...
I've just had a very embarrassing thought. The series this image was taken from was shot in the evening, in farmland. An increasing yet unavoidable feeling says the specks may be gnats, midges, in other words flies. If I'm right my past Photoshop interventions have been more than a little misguided. Face plant waiting for a better solution.
 

MattKing

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I've just had a very embarrassing thought. The series this image was taken from was shot in the evening, in farmland. An increasing yet unavoidable feeling says the specks may be gnats, midges, in other words flies. If I'm right my past Photoshop interventions have been more than a little misguided. Face plant waiting for a better solution.
So basically, bugs in your process.:whistling::wink::D
 
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blockend

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So basically, bugs in your process.:whistling::wink::D
It's surprising how once you've convinced yourself of a cause, you'll only look for solutions that fit the theory. Living in a rural area I have noticed this phenomenon before, and always thought it was chemical not optical. Midges stay close to objects, especially people and animals. Vintage 35mm lenses are sharp enough to show the object, though not the detail. An acutance developer like Rodinal sharpens, but small objects get lost in the pronounced grain.

Anyway, thanks for all your help folks, I'm suitably chastened :unsure:
 

Sirius Glass

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So it is not buggy software. That puts flies in the ointment. This must have really bugged you.
 
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