black photo paper instead of white

[AgX]

There were fiber based coloured papers made in Germany by either Tura or Labaphot (no black of course).

Tetenenal offered a system where it was intented to etch-off emulsion image-wise.

 

[MartinP]

Do I understand it right that the OP wants to make a reflective negative-image from silver, over a darkened background ? As per some old processes visually, if not chemically ?

In Europe at least, there is still some direct positive orthochromatic film from Maco available in sheets, for making copy negs etc. An enlarger print on that stuff, with suitable exposure and developing, could provide the silver image and then the background could be black paper, velvet, a hole-in-a-dark-box or whatever you want. An alternate would be a reversal process of ordinary ortho-sheet film to achieve the same result.

EDIT: It looks as though that direct reversal film has gone now, oops. Normal ortho sheet film with either a contact print or reversal-processing would the way to go. As I should have written above, I don't think trying to dye a commercial paper base would work very well, but coating your own might also be possible.

 

[Ray Rogers]

Do I understand it right that the OP wants to make a reflective negative-image from silver, over a darkened background ? As per some old processes visually, if not chemically ?

In Europe at least, there is still some direct positive orthochromatic film from Maco available in sheets, for making copy negs etc. An enlarger print on that stuff, with suitable exposure and developing, could provide the silver image and then the background could be black paper, velvet, a hole-in-a-dark-box or whatever you want. An alternate would be a reversal process of ordinary ortho-sheet film to achieve the same result.

EDIT: It looks as though that direct reversal film has gone now, oops. Normal ortho sheet film with either a contact print or reversal-processing would the way to go. As I should have written above, I don't think trying to dye a commercial paper base would work very well, but coating your own might also be possible.

Think so... but if I am correct, there is no need for direct positive or reversal... That is cool part; these processes produce positive images from (unchanged) negatives....

 

[Ray Rogers]

There were fiber based coloured papers made in Germany by either Tura or Labaphot (no black of course).

Tetenenal offered a system where it was intented to etch-off emulsion image-wise.

I have trouble thinking such low volume nich (sp?) products would have been made by more than one company... besides, it seems like the colors offered were always the same. If anyone has any links brochures samples etc from Tura or Labaphot, I would be interested in seeing/having them. (pm or email)

Does anyone have a picture of Tura or Labaphot's factory?

I once doubted Tetenal and they sent me a nice little history so I don't know, but it is still possible for companies to sell other manufacters' products... as their own.

At this point it sounds like the Tetenal might be what richard ide had in mind.
I am not aware of this product... can you describe it in more detail? What was it for? What sort of images did it produce? Any known links or famous examples?

Thanks

Ray

 

[eddie]

John - I'm not exactly sure of what you're trying to do, but what if you used LiquidLight on acetate?

 

[removed account4]

John - I'm not exactly sure of what you're trying to do, but what if you used LiquidLight on acetate?

hey eddie

i have done that, i wasn't able to get a good "hold"
maybe the best thing for me to do is get black rag paper
and coat it with LL and see what happens.

thank you all for your responses !
john

 

[erikg]

I was thinking of the Luminos papers too, don't remember a black, there was red and gold and silver etc. But... if it's direct positive paper you are after, that does exist: Ilford Harmon DP

Efke has something like it too.

And in color there is Ilfo/cibachrome still out there.

 

[eddie]

John- how about another, potentially dumb, idea?
I've been using self sealing laminate sheets, in creating my new negatives. They're 9x12 sheets. The back side has glue on it, which may have enough "tooth" to hold the LiquidLight.

 

[removed account4]

naah no ideas are dumb in a brainstorm !

i will look into the laminate sheets ...

erik, im not really looking for direct positive,
but a cheap way of making fake looking ambro/tin-types
i have a "tintype parlor" coming here soon and i figure
soon i will have the emulsion and the special developing agent
but might try to do something on paper, for laughs, instead of on tin or glass.
i am now thinking that i could fully expose and blacken some photo paper
and maybe could coat it with liquid light, and try developing it in their wacky developer
(just to see what happens ... )

kentmere made the luminos products from what i have been told ...
the liquid emulsion for sure, and who knows .. maybe the specialty papers too ...
john

 

[MartinP]

Think so... but if I am correct, there is no need for direct positive or reversal... That is cool part; these processes produce positive images from (unchanged) negatives....

I was assuming the OP meant the same things as the old glass-plates in my family, where the processes produce a normal negative image which is then viewed by reflected light, rather than transmitted light ? Hence the bits with most silver (the highlights of the scene which are darker on the neg) reflect most light and the thinnest parts of the neg (the shadows of the scene) reflect the least light.

This effect is easily visible if you hold up a side-lit thin neg against a dark background. The point about using a direct reversal film is that you can use any negative you already have to make the 'print', and in whatever size you need, without having to be limited by an in-camera exposure.

I was also informed that the direct reversal film is still available - just not from the stockist I usually use. For example, there is a graphics film from Agfa, Alliance DD, which might do the job with a soft development (as it is a high-contrast film).

 

[Ray Rogers]

The point about using a direct reversal film is that you can use any negative you already have to make the 'print', and in whatever size you need, without having to be limited by an in-camera exposure.

Yes. That makes good sense.
Has anyone actually observed this "reversal" on Direct Positive film?
I get the feeling the effect might be sensitive to surface properties (coatings etc.) of the film, the effect being easier to obtain on one side or the other... not sure though... just curious.

 

[Stephen Frizza]

Ron (photo engineer) the company that made colour based papers was Ilford and they certainly sold Blue , Red, Green and Yellow. I am not sure about other colours. the stock was resin coated and I loved using it!

 

[bob100684]

what about exposing your print. putting a piece of cardboard over the image area, then exposing the borders?

 

[An Le-qun]

I tried doing something like this as I was just getting into gumoil printing. Instead of printing on white paper and filling in with black oil paint (then bleaching and filling in with gray for the midtones), I tried printing on dark gray and black papers and filling in with white.

The problems: I couldn't find any black paper that would hold up to the scrubbing required to remove the first layer of paint. So I exposed and developed some matte finish fiber-based paper; it held up under the rough treatment and accepted the layer of gum dichromate for the print. The flaw that really killed it for me was that the white oil paint fogged the black areas (those protected by the gum resist layer) so that the image was indistinct.

Now, after reading this thread, I am wondering if there are metallic silver paints (oil or possibly acrylic) that would hold on to the bare paper but not fog the gum-protected shadows. It strikes me that if there are, and if they do, the result would have a faux tintype look to it. I will try this this weekend if I can come up with the paint.

 

[Monophoto]

There was a company called Argenta that made papers on colored bases.

I haven't seen any of that since the early 1970's. And none on a black base.

 

[richard ide]

The paper I used came in red, blue, yellow, green and orange. The paper colour coating was matte but the paper base was a high gloss white. I think the bleach etch was copper chloride/hydrogen peroxide (2 solutions)? The company also produced gold and silver. The emulsion was a grade 2 (approximately) although the bleach/etch only worked with high contrast images.

 

[TangledBranches]

BLACK PHOTO PAPER

I know you posted this several years ago but I was wondering if you ever found a company that makes black photo paper? I really want to get my hands on some but I am having no luck finding anything but white or pastels

 

[Ian Grant]

There's never been a black based conventional paper, I did experiment with a white toner to give white tones on a black base in the mid 70's but the toner was cadmium based and wouldn't be legal with today's environmental concerns. The tones were a dirty white anyway.

Luminos was the company who marketed EFKE films and papers, and EFKE made coloured based papers packaged & sold by a number of companies. As previously mentioned Kentmere also sold similar papers. There main uses were as display materials and they were marketed at the Graphics & Display industry rather than conventional photographers. This was a field that Kentmere excelled in and one reason Ilford bought them was for their range of high end display materials designed for wide inkjet printers.

Ian

 

[Maris]

Harman Direct Positive Paper comes out black if developed without exposure. The direct positive portraits I've done on this material don't look like tintypes but they do have the mirror reversed view of a face that tintypes (and Daguerreotypes) deliver.