black border around prints: is there a viable workaround?

[David Lyga]

I know that the best way to do this is photographically (burning in the border with light), but is there a viable alternative, one using a marker? Will a Sharpie hold up with time? A simple crayon? Another type of 'paint'? Please give your thoughts. - David Lyga

 

[msage]

A sharpie will not. Look for one with permeant and archival ink.

 

[Kino]

We use India Ink pens ( or a Rapidograph with India Ink) to write on motion picture film. You could try Gaylord; https://www.gaylord.com/search?text=india+ink+pens

 

[adelorenzo]

I picked up some "pigment liner" pens at my local office supply store. They make a nice clean line and are considered highly permanent.

 

[David Lyga]

I picked up some "pigment liner" pens at my local office supply store. They make a nice clean line and are considered highly permanent.

Can you possibly provide a link? - David Lyga

 

[cramej]

Most any pens in the technical pen category here would suffice:

https://www.dickblick.com/categories/drawing/drafting/technical-pens/

 

[pentaxuser]

David I am a little unsure what you meant by black border but from the answers you have received the respondents think you mean a single thin black line or what seems to be referred to as a pen line so the border is white then black pen line then white to the edge of the sheet or the penline is on the edge of the picture then white all the way to the edge of the sheet.

Penliner templates exist but seem to be expensive and scarce nowadays. My question which may be yours as well or at least tie in with yours is: Does India ink pens or pigment liners form a permanent line on RC paper which dries into the paper? My experience of pens which can do a thin black lines is that on RC paper there is a tendency for it to smudge when applying the line and it never seems to completely dry into the surface and become permanent.

FB paper might be quite different of course and your paper of choice may be FB but while not wishing to hijack your thread I'd appreciate knowing what kind of pens can do the job on RC

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Luckless]

I'm curious as to why you're trying to avoid establishing the lines/border directly through exposure. Would contact masks not be more reliable and easier than trying to draw content onto the print?

 

[Bill Burk]

I print with black borders so I have no need to add a black border...

Are your white borders true and square? You might not get a good look if they aren’t.

I have cut two sheets of paper to simulate mat board. I cut the darker paper window just about 1/32” smaller all around than the window cut out of the top sheet. This is pretty decent looking.

I have used rapidograph with India ink on RC paper. It always got blobby on Fibre Base. I bought some ox gall and gum Arabic thinking it might help but no luck.

 

[Bill Burk]

You could dry mount and draw the outline on the mat board.

 

[darkosaric]

I'm curious as to why you're trying to avoid establishing the lines/border directly through exposure. Would contact masks not be more reliable and easier than trying to draw content onto the print?

I needed to peel off my mask in enlarger to be able to get black border, and it was not easy task. Many engravers do not have possibility to print more than exact 24x36mm.

 

[AgX]

My experience of pens which can do a thin black lines is that on RC paper there is a tendency for it to smudge when applying the line and it never seems to completely dry into the surface and become permanent.

There are various pens and inks. As kino hinted at above water-based technical inks once used for technical drawings on paper will work.

 

[esearing]

I had considered creating a system of opaque masks laser cut to form a replacement for a speed easel. Example 12x12 base with an 8x10 well/cut out to hold 8x10 paper, 2nd layer with 1/4 masking to hold the paper down and form white borders, then a middle insert cut from the 2nd layer which would be 1/16 smaller on the edges to use as a border mask. Then I realized I would need them in several formats and let the thought go as it would be too expensive and cutting a mat board would suffice. But if you have access to a 3D printer you could make a flashing mask to fit over your print in the easel assuming you make a standard print size.

 

[guangong]

Reading the above contributors’ suggestion, and personally never having added black borders (other than so called”full frame”), Bull Burk has supplied the best solution.
If stil desire using ink, a ruling pen, if you know how to use one, with a high quality India ink, such as Pelican, and a straight edge should do the trick.
Since architects and engineers now use computers, technical drawing equipment is really cheap. Another benefit of the digital revolution.

 

[AgX]

a high quality India ink, such as Pelican, and a straight edge should do the trick.

Pelican offer different such inks, not all are technical ones. The crucial term is "drawing ink". Though other non-technical versions might work too.

 

[Renato Tonelli]

See page 456 in "Way Beyond Monochrome" (Second Edition); It has a simple, straightforward solution; you will need to adapt it for the effect you're looking for.

 

[guangong]

Pelican offer different such inks, not all are technical ones. The crucial term is "drawing ink". Though other non-technical versions might work too.

Although aware that Pelican made ink for fountain pens and I have Pelican drawing inks such as sepia, I specifically mentioned their India ink. I mentioned Pelican, which I have used for over 60 yrs, as opposed to something less durable like Higgins India ink.
For writing and casual drawing with fountain pen I use Noodlers Ink. Once dry, it’s permanent no matter of paper becomes wet.
Ball point pens were new and could be messy when I was in grade school. Our Benedictine teachers only permitted writing with pen and ink. For effortless writing I still use fountain pen. Ball point is just too much work.

 

[AgX]

The Pelican ink called "India" is no technical ink. That is why I commented.

 

[David Lyga]

David I am a little unsure what you meant by black border but from the answers you have received the respondents think you mean a single thin black line or what seems to be referred to as a pen line so the border is white then black pen line then white to the edge of the sheet or the penline is on the edge of the picture then white all the way to the edge of the sheet.

Penliner templates exist but seem to be expensive and scarce nowadays. My question which may be yours as well or at least tie in with yours is: Does India ink pens or pigment liners form a permanent line on RC paper which dries into the paper? My experience of pens which can do a thin black lines is that on RC paper there is a tendency for it to smudge when applying the line and it never seems to completely dry into the surface and become permanent.

FB paper might be quite different of course and your paper of choice may be FB but while not wishing to hijack your thread I'd appreciate knowing what kind of pens can do the job on RC

Thanks

pentaxuser

Essentially, a black border, not necessarily only a thin line surrounded by white. Far from 'hijacking' my thread, you add to its theme and i thank you. Also, I am interested in BOTH fiber based and RC. - David Lyga

 

[David Lyga]

I'm curious as to why you're trying to avoid establishing the lines/border directly through exposure. Would contact masks not be more reliable and easier than trying to draw content onto the print?

I use odd sizes oftentimes and the difficulty of perfectly aligning in near dark conditions is difficult. Maybe better done 'after' the processing. - David Lyga

 

[David Lyga]

You could dry mount and draw the outline on the mat board.

This is something that I also had in mind, but wanted to also explore the viability of doing this directly on the print. One advantage of doing it your way, Bill, is that you do not lose any real estate, because nothing is taken away from the print area. - David Lyga

 

[Pieter12]

A technical or ruling pen can be tricky to use if you are not familiar with it. It can blob, skip and smear, and scratch the print surface. Technical pens clog easily and need to be cleaned regularly. I would recommend a technical marker such as the Pigma Micron from Sakura. It comes in a variety of widths and is archival and is readily available at art supply stores and most probably Amazon.

 

[adelorenzo]

Can you possibly provide a link? - David Lyga

These are the pens I bought:
https://www.staedtler.ca/en/products/ink-writing-instruments/fineliners/pigment-liner-308-fineliner/

According to the manufacturer they are "Pigment ink, indelible (in accordance with ISO 14145-2), lightfast, waterproof"

I have used them mostly for writing on prints they seem to work well with any fiber paper that I have used. More suited for a thin keyline than for a thick border.

 

[Luckless]

I use odd sizes oftentimes and the difficulty of perfectly aligning in near dark conditions is difficult. Maybe better done 'after' the processing. - David Lyga

I can very clearly understand the frustration from frequent use of non-standard sizes. I imagine that will always be a can of worms.

Have you experimented with using a safelight filter for your enlarger, and an external border-exposure-light?

Possibly the neatest way I've seen someone do aligned black borders on random sized prints was to do their print exposure normally, then put a safe light filter in so they could keep the projected image visible on the print. From there they would put a solid mask on the print while leaving one edge uncovered, use a bright lamp next to the enlarger to expose the edge, then repeat for the other edges. - Sharp, well aligned borders with a perfect match to the print's black tones.



This thread reminds me that I need to sort out a reliable way to do this with my contact prints. I had been planning to make mask frames for white borders, but after experimenting with my prints without a mask just for the general trial exposures, I've decided that I kind of like the black edge instead... but I haven't yet settled on a plan that sounds quick and easy to keep alignment on everything for the print exposure [with the glass and negative press] and the border exposure. Building a two stage vacuum table may solve some of my problems however...

 

[Pieter12]

I can very clearly understand the frustration from frequent use of non-standard sizes. I imagine that will always be a can of worms.

Have you experimented with using a safelight filter for your enlarger, and an external border-exposure-light?

Possibly the neatest way I've seen someone do aligned black borders on random sized prints was to do their print exposure normally, then put a safe light filter in so they could keep the projected image visible on the print. From there they would put a solid mask on the print while leaving one edge uncovered, use a bright lamp next to the enlarger to expose the edge, then repeat for the other edges. - Sharp, well aligned borders with a perfect match to the print's black tones.



This thread reminds me that I need to sort out a reliable way to do this with my contact prints. I had been planning to make mask frames for white borders, but after experimenting with my prints without a mask just for the general trial exposures, I've decided that I kind of like the black edge instead... but I haven't yet settled on a plan that sounds quick and easy to keep alignment on everything for the print exposure [with the glass and negative press] and the border exposure. Building a two stage vacuum table may solve some of my problems however...

You might want to try a Rubylith mask cut with a clear the border to your taste.