Bill Troop's Alkaline Fixer TF-2 and Kodalk Sodium metaborate

[pentaxuser]

Perhaps my comment was too far off topic.

Well my post wasn't directed at anything you had said but to juan whose one liner and the mention of help did not seem to address UKbob's problem. Unless of course, as I said, it was simply to show that such chemicals are easily obtained in his area of the U.S. even in all purpose hardware stores That's fine of course but it did not appear to be of much help to UKbob

pentaxuser

 

[juan]

I’m saying that even in my small town borax and sodium hydroxide are readily available, so it’s probably worth checking locally regardless of where you live.

 

[koraks]

I’m saying that even in my small town borax and sodium hydroxide are readily available

The US is a different place. For instance, sodium hydroxide is available here in my mainland EU small town, but borax certainly isn't and actually isn't available for direct sale to consumers in most places except a few online retailers due to legislation. The point is that you can't just assume based on one locale what the availability elsewhere on the planet are; local supply conditions vary so wildly that what is supermarket stuff for you is unobtainium for someone else.

 

[gone]

Are we talking about the same borax? It's a laundry soap here in the U.S. The only thing I know that it's banned in, is food products. I wouldn't eat it or drink it or inhale it, but it's not a hazardous or restricted substance to my knowledge.

Home

www.20muleteamlaundry.com

 

[koraks]

Chemical restrictions in the EU get more strict every year, it seems. AFAIK borax fell into disgrace due to its boron content which is associated with fertility and development issues, but you'd have to look it up how the argumentation went exactly. It's not banned for industrial use evidently, but apparently it is for consumers (?)

 

[Rudeofus]

RE once said, that borates are also very bad for citrus fruits, so this may contribute to its unobtainium status in some places.

 

[grain elevator]

Borax was once touted to be a universal remedy in the circles that also advocated injecting chlorine solution against COVID etc. Darwin award doesn't come as immediately with the borax. Perhaps that contributed to its restricted sales?

 

[koraks]

I don't think it had anything to do with that kind of thing, no. I think it was just a reassessment of ongoing toxicology research and the observation that borax was used in some ways that were doubtful; i.e. high boron concentrations in children's toys (slime) and the use of borax in beauty products including for teeth whitening etc. Given at least some proven toxicity of borates, it's just a matter of variation between legislative bodies resulting in no particular legislation in some areas and fairly strict legislation elsewhere.

 

[michaelapdx]

TF2 is the only fixer I use. I make it up myself and always follow the recipe, adding chems in order. The reason I don't go to a different/newer alkaline fixer is because I have about 25lbs. of kodalk (sodium metaborate) on hand and might as well make use of it. Besides, TF2 does everything I want it to do.

Curious if you are still using TF2. I'm looking at mixing my own fixer and have the chemistry needed to do TF2. I'm looking for a fixer that is easy to mix, use, and store for reuse on bw film development.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Curious if you are still using TF2. I'm looking at mixing my own fixer and have the chemistry needed to do TF2. I'm looking for a fixer that is easy to mix, use, and store for reuse on bw film development.

Yes, I just made a fresh batch. It will probably be the only fixer I will use for the rest of my life on this planet. Simple to make, simple to use and works just fine for all of what I do.

 

[michaelapdx]

Yes, I just made a fresh batch. It will probably be the only fixer I will use for the rest of my life on this planet. Simple to make, simple to use and works just fine for all of what I do.

Thanks

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Alan,
can you please confirm for me that all I have to do for TF-2 is add and mix into the water, Sodium thiosulphate, Sodium sulphite, then Borax and finally Sodium hydroxide.
No need to mix the Borax and Sodium hydroxide separately in their own water ? Just add them dry ?

I might be reading to much into your answer to juan.

Thankyou.

In Kodalk substitution using hydroxide and borax in the Kodak formulary book I have, it says to dissolve the hydroxide separately in cold water and and then add it to the solution before the borax is added.
I'm not sure how important it is to add the hydroxide first.

 

[chuckroast]

In Kodalk substitution using hydroxide and borax in the Kodak formulary book I have, it says to dissolve the hydroxide separately in cold water and and then add it to the solution before the borax is added.
I'm not sure how important it is to add the hydroxide first.

Sodium Hydroxide is exothermic and can really heat up a solution when added too quickly.

Any time I see it specified, I add it very slowwwwwwwwwwwly so as to not build up a lot of heat.

The recommendation you noted may be a reflection of this fact, I don't know.

ProTip: Eye protection, nitrile gloves, a good lab apron and breathing protection are pretty much mandatory when handling this kind of stuff, unless you happen to enjoy really painful chemical burns. I also keep a running tap an hose going at the other end of the sink, in case I get splashed.

 

[koraks]

Eye protection, nitrile gloves, a good lab apron and breathing protection are pretty much mandatory when handling this kind of stuff,

Too bad they don't put that on the bottles of drain cleaner around here.
In all seriousness, it's good to be careful, but there's no need to exaggerate. Handling small amounts of sodium hydroxide (i.e. up to a few hundred grams) isn't particularly tricky. Don't get it into your eyes, that's all.

 

[chuckroast]

Too bad they don't put that on the bottles of drain cleaner around here.
In all seriousness, it's good to be careful, but there's no need to exaggerate. Handling small amounts of sodium hydroxide (i.e. up to a few hundred grams) isn't particularly tricky. Don't get it into your eyes, that's all.

Yes, it can be handled with care rather easily. But I see a lot of people doing sloppy/dangerous things with darkroom chems, particularly when they don't have a chemistry background.

Common sense and basic protection is all that's needed here.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, I agree!