Beutler HDD 105

[hka]

Is this developer a good choice for developing at a rotarymachine like a Jobo CPP? The reason for my question is that I am looking for a developer that has a little bit more acutance and sharpness. I'am now using ID11 at 1+1 and the edges are a more or less "unsharp".
The Beutler HDD in combination with FP4+ (120 -4x5"). If the answer is positive, what's the suggested time and the minimum amount of dev for one film, because the - small - capacity of it in the tank.
Thanks

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Is this developer a good choice for developing at a rotary machine like a Jobo CPP? The reason for my question is that I am looking for a developer that has a little bit more acutance and sharpness. I'am now using ID11 at 1+1 and the edges are a more or less "unsharp".
The Beutler HDD in combination with FP4+ (120 -4x5"). If the answer is positive, what's the suggested time and the minimum amount of dev for one film, because the - small - capacity of it in the tank.
Thanks

The Jobo will provide evenly processed films with excellent consistency although for optimum edge effects, which it seems is what you're looking for, intermittent agitation is considered to be the best method.
I`m not sure how well this old formula works with films these days, so it`s best to try it first, although I would suggest Paterson Acutol which should be available again. Also, Neofin, Rodinal and FX-39 should work well too.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

For maximum acutance and optimum edge effects with FP-4 in a Jobo or any other rotary processor system, my developer reccomendation is Pyrocat-MC. I would fill the tank with developer.

 

[hka]

Pyrocat MC

Tom and Keith,
Thank you for your replies.
I like to try the recommandation for the Pyrocat MC developer but I’am not a chemist. So I need a clear description of what to do. In that case I extracted, from some other threads about this subject, the parts I need for this. What you see below is the information and formulary from Gadget Gainer and Sanking. For me there are some questions about the Pyrocat MC. First the amount I need for the potassium carbonate and second the temperature for the warm glycol.
In the same thread I read something about leaving the TEA, which has some influence on the selflife.

Formulary of Pyrocat MC (by Gainer and Sanking)
A-Part
2,5 g………metol
4,0 g………ascorbic or erythorbic acid
8,0 g………TEA (about 7 ml at room temp) (does this mean dissolve 8,0 g TEA in 100 ml water?)
1 tsp………water

50 g………..pyrocatechol

B-Part
???………….potassium carbonate

Preparing A-Part
Mix the Metol, Ascorbic acid, TEA and Water to make a slurry.
After this fill up with water to make ¼ liter.
Let stay for a while untill it’s more fluid.
Add some warm propylene glycol (at which temp and how much is sufficient??) (or ethylene)
Transfer to a larger container
add 50 g Pyrocatechol, keep it warm during stirring till it gets clear
Fill up with water to make 1000 cc

Preparing B-Part
??? Potassium carbonate
Fill up with water to make 1000 cc

Mixing 1:1:100
FP4+ @125
Temp @…...…21°… …-….24°…....-..26,5°C
dev-time - 7:30 min - 7:15 min - 5:30 min

Is this, after some questions to be answered, the right way to give it a go?
Your help will be greatfull and many thanks in advance.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

No help here to your question, but.....

For years I've turned my head when a formula came along using TEA. I have no idea what it is in the real world. I thought once you had Rodinal and D-76, a good, thick film and Forte paper the search had ended.

Now I'm older and my quest for the ultimate film elixir is becoming a crusade of lust and compulsion.

If someone would be so kind to tell me what TEA is called I will continue my lusting.

Thank you,

 

[Ole]

TEA is triethanolamine, I believe...

But what is Beutler HDD 105? Do you mean Beutler's rollfilm developer?

 

[Bruce Osgood]

TEA is triethanolamine, I believe...

But what is Beutler HDD 105? Do you mean Beutler's rollfilm developer?

Close enough for me, thanks Ole

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

My procedure for mixing Pyrocat-MC "A"

Tom and Keith,
Thank you for your replies.
I like to try the recommandation for the Pyrocat MC developer but I’am not a chemist. So I need a clear description of what to do. In that case I extracted, from some other threads about this subject, the parts I need for this. What you see below is the information and formulary from Gadget Gainer and Sanking. For me there are some questions about the Pyrocat MC. First the amount I need for the potassium carbonate and second the temperature for the warm glycol.
In the same thread I read something about leaving the TEA, which has some influence on the selflife.

Formulary of Pyrocat MC (by Gainer and Sanking)
A-Part
2,5 g………metol
4,0 g………ascorbic or erythorbic acid
8,0 g………TEA (about 7 ml at room temp) (does this mean dissolve 8,0 g TEA in 100 ml water?)
1 tsp………water

50 g………..pyrocatechol

B-Part
???………….potassium carbonate

Preparing A-Part
Mix the Metol, Ascorbic acid, TEA and Water to make a slurry.
After this fill up with water to make ¼ liter.
Let stay for a while untill it’s more fluid.
Add some warm propylene glycol (at which temp and how much is sufficient??) (or ethylene)
Transfer to a larger container
add 50 g Pyrocatechol, keep it warm during stirring till it gets clear
Fill up with water to make 1000 cc

Preparing B-Part
??? Potassium carbonate
Fill up with water to make 1000 cc

Mixing 1:1:100
FP4+ @125
Temp @…...…21°… …-….24°…....-..26,5°C
dev-time - 7:30 min - 7:15 min - 5:30 min

Is this, after some questions to be answered, the right way to give it a go?
Your help will be greatfull and many thanks in advance.

My(Tom Hoskinson’s) procedure for mixing Pyrocat MC


Pyrocat MC "A" Concentrate

Triethanolamine @38°C (100°F)------------- 8ml

Distilled or Deionized water @38°C (100°F)--- 8ml

Metol ----------------------------------2.5 gram
Ascorbic Acid --------------------------4.0 gram

Pyrocatechol ---------------------------50.0 grams

Propylene Glycol @38°C (100°F) ---------600ml




1. Place a 250ml or 300ml Pyrex beaker in a water bath (water about 115° F - 46°C) Pour the warm Triethanolamine and Water into the beaker and mix them together (I use a magnetic stirring hotplate - but a stirring rod or paddle will also work ok).

2. Stir the Metol and Ascorbic Acid into the mixture of Triethanolamine and Water, after the mixture has become fluid and uniform, allow it to sit for about 10 or 15 minutes, and then mix in about 200ml of the warm Propylene Glycol. Stir until the solution is uniform in color and viscosity.

3. Transfer the 200ml + solution obtained in Step 2 to a 1 liter container (I use a Pyrex Beaker). Rinse the small beaker from Step 2 with warm Propylene Glycol 38°C (100°F), then pour the glycol rinse into the 1 liter container (while stirring).

4. Stir the remaining warm glycol into the mixture in the 1 liter container. Keep the 1 liter container in a warm water bath or on a hot plate such that the glycol mixture temperature is maintained between 120°F and 130° F (49°C - 55°C) When the mixture is uniform, stir in the 50 grams of Pyrocatechol. Continue stirring until the mixture is again uniform, then add sufficient warm 38°C (100°F) Propylene Glycol (with stirring) to make a total volume of 1.0 liter.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

TEA is Triethanolamine; Google: DOW Triethanolamine

No help here to your question, but.....

For years I've turned my head when a formula came along using TEA. I have no idea what it is in the real world. I thought once you had Rodinal and D-76, a good, thick film and Forte paper the search had ended.

Now I'm older and my quest for the ultimate film elixir is becoming a crusade of lust and compulsion.

If someone would be so kind to tell me what TEA is called I will continue my lusting.

Thank you,

Bruce, Google DOW Triethanolamine

Triethanolamine is a good solvent for several developing agents. Also, when you mix water with Triethanolamine it forms a basic solution (as opposed to acid or neutral solution).

Water + TEA + Metol forms Metol Base

Water + TEA + Ascorbic Acid forms an Ascorbate (a salt of Ascorbic Acid).

 

[hka]

Thank again Tom,
this will help a lot.
One last question how much developer do I need for one film. The Jobo Tank needs at least 270ml fluid.
Do I use, in this case, 3 ml Part A + 3 ml Part B + filled up with 300 ml water. Would that be enough for one film??

Ole,
the Beutler HDD 105 is mentioned in the Darkroom Cookbook second edition on page 160. It's a High Definition - Enhanced Acutance Developer.

 

[Ole]

Ole,
the Beutler HDD 105 is mentioned in the Darkroom Cookbook second edition on page 160. It's a High Definition - Enhanced Acutance Developer.

"105" is simply the number of the recipe in that book, and has no relevance when referring to the developer.

Willi Beutler never really described that formula, it's derived from his general recommendations on dilutions of his plate developers for use with the then-new thin-emulsion films from ADOX.

I'm sure I posted most of the chapter on developing from beutler's "Dunkelkammerpraxis" on the old articles system; it seems not to have been migrated over yet.

 

[hka]

Ole,
Sorry, but in the DC-book it is described as recipe #31. So I don't know where that 105 is coming from? But it doesn't matter in any case because I can't use it voor rotary processing. I will look at it as the old articles system is back again...
Thanks for this information.

 

[Ole]

Harry,

of course you can use it for rotary processing! The only thing is that you won't get the extra acutance that way, but there's nothing wrong with that - you won't get that anyway with rotary processing.

I've used Beutler's, Neofin Blau, Rodinal and Ilfotec-HC with rotary processing, and they all give good results.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Is this developer a good choice for developing at a rotarymachine like a Jobo CPP? The reason for my question is that I am looking for a developer that has a little bit more acutance and sharpness. I'am now using ID11 at 1+1 and the edges are a more or less "unsharp".
The Beutler HDD in combination with FP4+ (120 -4x5"). If the answer is positive, what's the suggested time and the minimum amount of dev for one film, because the - small - capacity of it in the tank.
Thanks

If you order the latest issue of "BLACK & WHITE PHOTOGRAPHY" magazine, you will be able to read a test of 3 homemade B&W film developers by the author `Leon Taylor` which include D-23, D-76H and Beutler`s High Definition Developer all tested using Ilford FP4 Plus film. The author liked the Beutler formula the best and it was also the most economical of the 3 despite D-23 being the simplest of the formulas.
http://www.thegmcgroup.com/item--Black-and-White-Photography--1003BW.html

 

[hka]

Keith,
I read this test but the author doesn't speak about rotary-processing. That's why my question came up.